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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost (Read 17368 times)
The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #270 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:06pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 11:59am:
When a murderer shoots and kills someone, who is accountable?  The shooter, or the manufacturer of the bullet used in the murder?

When a litterbug drops his used soda straws on a beach who is accountable?   The litterbug or the soda-straw manufacturer?

This ain't rocket science.  A 4th grader should be able to put the liability where is belongs.

This is not a NAP issue.  Its up to each municipality to decide what to do with litterbugs.

But $1000 fines and jail time as punishment?  That's ridiculous.


The problem is that each person who drops a straw is only one six billionth of the problem. Prosecute one, or a few, and you've solved, well, one six-billionth of the problem.

Like I said, if only the individuals are liable, that's fine. I agree with this.

It's just that you can't catch any sizable fraction of the people doing it and we're going to have to accept that beaches will be filthy.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #271 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Page reset.

(Yeah, that thing Don is on about is still happening.)

If anyone's interested in what's wrong, I can venture a guess.

Reply #270 is supposed to generate page 28, just like reply #10 generated page 2.

Somewhere along the line, one of the posts got given a reply number (Let's just say it's reply #238), but the thread didn't register it fully. So because the thread "thinks" 239 is only 238, and 240 is only 239, it won't let us see the new page until reply #241 is posted.

Something might be wrong with the index. Find the corrupted reply and give it a number in that index (might have to re-index all the replies after it, ungh) and fixed.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SicklersDink
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #272 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:17pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:06pm:
The problem is that each person who drops a straw is only one six billionth of the problem. Prosecute one, or a few, and you've solved, well, one six-billionth of the problem.

Like I said, if only the individuals are liable, that's fine. I agree with this.

It's just that you can't catch any sizable fraction of the people doing it and we're going to have to accept that beaches will be filthy.


Warn on plastic straw maker and they will be good libertarians and come around to environmentally sound thinking.

[b]thereby eliminating about 500-600 million plastic straws each day. And that eliminates 182,500,000,000 plastic straws every year.

Or break down the chief's door and confiscaate his two filthy old straws.

I recommend the LP supports doing both.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #273 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:19pm
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Or break down the chief's door and confiscate his two filthy old straws.


I have filthy old straws too. We're doing it because it's good for the environment instead of getting new ones all the time.

Don't be such a sanitary fairy. A little dirt is good for the immune system.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SicklersDink
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #274 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:19pm:
I have filthy old straws too. We're doing it because it's good for the environment instead of getting new ones all the time.

Don't be such a sanitary fairy. A little dirt is good for the immune system.


I know as well as any lizard that a little dirt is good for us. Lizards eating dung beetles and house flies are where I draw the line.

We'll break down your door too and take the straws. You'll be spending a couple of days in jail if they find you hiding. Changing your skin colour won't work this time lizard.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #275 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:49pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:06pm:
The problem is that each person who drops a straw is only one six billionth of the problem. Prosecute one, or a few, and you've solved, well, one six-billionth of the problem.

Like I said, if only the individuals are liable, that's fine. I agree with this.

It's just that you can't catch any sizable fraction of the people doing it and we're going to have to accept that beaches will be filthy.

The libertarian solution is simple:

Decentralize the government and let each municipality make their own rules/penalties about littering. 

We use this solution in our HOA, and it seems to work pretty well.  We have a dog leash/dog poop clause in the CC&Rs.

If a dog is found wandering loose within the HOA common area, the owner of the dog is fined.  Subsequent infractions lead to higher fines.

Same with dog poop.  With everyone having camera apps on their mobile phones, its easy to catch a dog owner who takes his/her dog out to do its business in the common areas.  And the digital images can be sent to the HOA electronically.

We had a few dog poop infractions a few years ago, but they were all the same person.  He was a renter, and eventually moved away.

Point is, let the municipality deal with litterbugs - not the State.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #276 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:52pm
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We'll break down your door too and take the straws.
The essence of how "socialists" solve "problems" (whether a real problem exists or not)- force.
  

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SicklersDink
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #277 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:56pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 28th, 2018 at 4:52pm:
The essence of how "socialists" solve "problems" (whether a real problem exists or not)- force.


Force at the point of a gun is the only remedy when a crazed extremist won't pay his taxes. Or his union dues, whatever applies.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #278 - Jul 28th, 2018 at 5:00pm
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Force at the point of a gun is the only remedy when a crazed extremist won't...
...give up her plastic straws!
  

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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #279 - Jul 31st, 2018 at 12:57pm
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Used needles and human feces are found littering downtown San Francisco as infectious disease expert warns the area is becoming dirtier than some slums in India and Brazil.

A recent investigation found 100 drug needles and more than 300 piles of feces on a 153 block area of downtown San Francisco .

A SOCialist Solution:

Governments in other socialist countries provide long-term housing for poor people,  many of whom make an attempt to keep at least their homes and surroundings livable.

But the homeless who live on the streets of downtown San Francisco are routinely being kicked from one encampment to the next, and therefore, don't feel a sense of obligation to clean up after themselves.

They need to be given permanent housing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5413551/Drug-needles-feces-line-streets-...
  
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