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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #610 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:26pm
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yamcha wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:17pm:
You forgot to add me.  I am from the exact same area the Chief is from.


That's right, I did. I don't mean to call you a stubby.

I only call members of your primitive hateful species stubbies when you act like stubbies.

And you, generally, do not. I certainly don't mean to say you're even partially responsible for the homeless problem.

But my question to you is the same.

You find yourself absolute divine emperor of California. What do you do about the homeless?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #611 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:59pm
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I will answer seriously.

I would send all the bums and illegals to Colorado and make you supreme ruler and now I want to know what you would do.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #612 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 10:36pm
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yamcha wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:59pm:
I will answer seriously.

I would send all the bums and illegals to Colorado and make you supreme ruler and now I want to know what you would do.


I would send them back where they came from. They're not my problem.

But you want an honest answer if I was really dictator and it really was my problem?

I wouldn't do anything unless the people complained.

If they complained, I would offer them a vote: Do you want the solution, even if it restricts your freedom?

If 75% voted yes, I would institute population control. (For the immediate issue, I would ban direct handouts.)

Prove you can support a baby for its entire life before you can have one.

If you can do that, and you don't want a baby, you can bring in an immigrant instead.

If your child ends up homeless, as dictator, I will catch it and bring it back to your house and send you the bill.

If your child ends up violent, I will catch it and put it in jail and send you the bill.

Yes, even if the child is an adult.

Holding families responsible isn't libertarian, and it isn't right, but if I find myself supreme overlord, I am going to solve the problems my people want solved.

In a world where people can't be held responsible for anything, and that's the problem, holding people responsible is the solution.

Those massive flocks of bums came from somewhere. Ultimately they're pouring out of other peoples' uteri. And maybe it's a fallacy in an economic bottleneck to assume you can just have babies and release them into a world you know they can't afford to live in when they turn 18.

This is California's fundamental problem, isn't it? The cost of living exceeds what most people are able to make, so they're homeless. They can make more money that way anyway.

I would ban handouts of money to take care of the immediate issue, and I'd have cops patrolling the streets for people feeding the bums money. They'd be fined. Steeply. If you want to give to bums, do it through me. I'll make sure they're making less than minimum wage, and they'll get it all on foodstamps so they can't buy drugs, which will take care of most of the violence and behaviour problems.

I would probably also put up shelters, yes to be paid for by the taxpayers. And yes free to the bums. However, bums who choose to live inside on their foodstamps are to be spayed and neutered, and when they're dead, the shelter houses go to the children of the people who paid for them, so that now, those people have houses to live in.

None of this is justice, and none of this is right, but it would solve the problem.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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yamcha
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #613 - Dec 1st, 2019 at 10:58pm
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 10:36pm:
.



I would send them back where they came from. They're not my problem.

But you want an honest answer if I was really dictator and it really was my problem?

I wouldn't do anything unless the people complained.

If they complained, I would offer them a vote: Do you want the solution, even if it restricts your freedom?

Offer who a vote?

If 75% voted yes, I would institute population control. (For the immediate issue, I would ban direct handouts.)

Illegal is illegal.  No vote needed.

Prove you can support a baby for its entire life before you can have one.

This can never be proven as no one knows the future.  Rags to riches, riches to rags.

If you can do that, and you don't want a baby, you can bring in an immigrant instead.

If your child ends up homeless, as dictator, I will catch it and bring it back to your house and send you the bill.

And if I can't or won't pay the bill?

If your child ends up violent, I will catch it and put it in jail and send you the bill.

And if I can't or won't pay the bill?

Yes, even if the child is an adult.

What is an adult child?

Holding families responsible isn't libertarian, and it isn't right, but if I find myself supreme overlord, I am going to solve the problems my people want solved.

Gas chambers ok?  What isthe point of being supreme overlord if you have to get the approval of the people?
Either you play God or you don't play God.


In a world where people can't be held responsible for anything, and that's the problem, holding people responsible is the solution.

Them remove all laws that protect the irresponsible.  This will save money too.

Those massive flocks of bums came from somewhere. Ultimately they're pouring out of other peoples' uteri. And maybe it's a fallacy in an economic bottleneck to assume you can just have babies and release them into a world you know they can't afford to live in when they turn 18.

This is California's fundamental problem, isn't it? The cost of living exceeds what most people are able to make, so they're homeless. They can make more money that way anyway.

No, it didn't used to be this way.  California's problem is because of Hispanic democrats and liberals in office.
They come in and pass laws to protect the illegals and bums.
Many of the bums come from other states.


I would ban handouts of money to take care of the immediate issue, and I'd have cops patrolling the streets for people feeding the bums money. They'd be fined. Steeply. If you want to give to bums, do it through me. I'll make sure they're making less than minimum wage, and they'll get it all on foodstamps so they can't buy drugs, which will take care of most of the violence and behaviour problems.

Why not just eliminate food stamps and minimum wage completely?

I would probably also put up shelters, yes to be paid for by the taxpayers. And yes free to the bums. However, bums who choose to live inside on their foodstamps are to be spayed and neutered, and when they're dead, the shelter houses go to the children of the people who paid for them, so that now, those people have houses to live in.

And what about those who refuse to pay tax to support your social programs?

None of this is justice, and none of this is right, but it would solve the problem.

It solves what problem?  The bums and illegals are still there and someone is still paying.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #614 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:52am
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The Opposition wrote on Dec 1st, 2019 at 9:04pm:
But in that vein, let's say you, SkyChief, are absolute dictator of California. Just for the sake of argument, let's say you've already implemented libertarianism and the homeless problem has not abated.

What do you do about it?
Thanks for asking.

When all libertarian policies have failed, I would order an end to all most taxation. I would certainly end individual and corporate Income Tax, Gasoline Tax, and Marijuana Tax. . . Maybe keep a Sales Tax, but lower it considerably. . . just enough to fund severance pay for the furloughed lawmakers in Sacramento.

Immediately, the economy would be booming, and growth would start again.  Jobs would become available, and investors would be stepping over each other trying to get in on the action.

Many job opportunities would become available, new housing starts would lower the cost of housing, and the only homeless remaining would be people who truly wanted to be homeless.

To these people, I would offer free one-way bus tickets to Colorado. 

$500 Guest Visas to immigrants who pass vetting screening.

The Paradise is renewed!  *phew*   

California once again becomes the envy of the world.

  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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yamcha
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #615 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 2:26am
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Wrong thinking Chief.

The first thing to do is to declare independence from the rest of the states.  We need to be our own country first.  No taxes whatsoever.  All property is private property.  Government buildings (if the is any) will be rented or leased on private property.

There will be NO central bank or federal reserve.  NO fractional reserve banking.

Property owners have a right to do whatever they think fit to trespassers, thieves, and squatters but must make it clear and noticeable where their property lines are.  Property owners are of course allowed to secure their property however they see fit.  Landmines, motion detector machine guns no problem.  There will be no homeless problem since there will be no government property.

Landmines, motion detector machine guns, and killer drones will also be used at the Mexican border.

Anchor babies will have citizenship revoked. 

If we choose to become a democracy then only the property owner will have a vote and the more acreage the more voting slots.

Guest Visa program will be ok but only to first world applicants.

No victimless crimes and complete freedom of association and disassociation.

Monopolies (gas, electric, water, etc) do not have the right to discriminate.  All other entities do.

All racial and political groups are allowed to form their own colonies or communes as long as they own the land.

All citizens are allowed to own and open carry ANY kind of weapon they want and do not need to register anything.

No licensing of any kind if required.  You do harm then you pay the price.

There will be a death penalty for sure.

  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #616 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:09am
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yamcha wrote on Nov 26th, 2019 at 7:46pm:
America is not some kind of nutty melting pot but was created by Europeans as an extension of Europe.

Where in the founding documents of the U.S. do you find support for your idea that America was created for Western Europeans?




  

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Jeff
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #617 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:21am
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 1:52am:
Thanks for asking.

When all libertarian policies have failed, I would order...
It's pretty ridiculous to be talking about ordering libertarian policies after libertarian policies have failed...

Dictators always promise to make the country they have absolute power over better, but they never do.

Homeless people have no more rights, and no different rights, than everyone else, and no one has any right to do what some homeless people are doing in California cities.

The police powers possessed by states and local governments are adequate to deal with the problems, but there is no requirement that local governments actually use their police powers to punish people who shit on the streets, or block public right's-of-way, or create health hazards by tossing garbage on the sidewalks.

Some California governments have chosen to allow uncivilized behavior in their cities, and it will continue until the people living in those cities have had enough of it and replace the fools that are in charge of their governments.

Edit: It isn't libertarians who are imagining that people have a "right" to live on the streets and use the streets for toilets and garbage dumps, it's "progressives".
  

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SkyChief
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #618 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:56am
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yamcha wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 2:26am:
Wrong thinking Chief.

The first thing to do is to declare independence from the rest of the states. . . 

All this is swell, but none of it addresses the homelessness crisis.

My edicts solve the housing crisis, and gets (most of) the homeless off the streets.   The ones remaining get free bus tickets to Colorado.

Jeff wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:21am:
Dictators always promise to make the country they have absolute power over better, but they never do.
I never asked for "absolute power", Jeff.    It was granted to me. 


Jeff wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:21am:
Homeless people have no more rights, and no different rights, than everyone else, and no one has any right to do what some homeless people are doing in California cities.

My plan to limit government would create a thriving economy, create new housing, thereby making housing in California more affordable. Also, without taxation, businesses will be allowed to grow.  They will need employees to run the businesses. 

There will be no longer a need to be homeless. 

It's a solid plan to solve the homeless crisis in California.   It couldn't be any worse than the Tax-'Em-Til-They-Bleed policy already in place.   Grin
  

Governments will always devise ways to deprive an honest man of his money or property, and claim that it's legal.
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Re: The Fall Of California - A Paradise Lost
Reply #619 - Dec 2nd, 2019 at 10:01am
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SkyChief wrote on Dec 2nd, 2019 at 9:56am:
All this is swell, but none of it addresses the homelessness crisis.

My edicts solve the housing crisis, and gets (most of) the homeless off the streets.   The ones remaining get free bus tickets to Colorado.


Even in Spain they cordon off the poor into fenced in areas where they live in home made shacks.  That seems to be better both ways than it is now here
  

Contest winner:  I predicted Kaz' meltdown
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