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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy. (Read 1301 times)
Jeff
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #20 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 5:27pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
The libertarians should have won this one by standing up for their beliefs rather than acting like a bunch of cockroaches in the kitchen when you turn on the light, scurrying for their dark corners where they can congratulate each other on having their rotten beliefs in peace.

The sad thing is, those beliefs are not actually rotten. I believe they're right.
It's good when you clearly and openly tell us what you think except when it isn't what you really think...
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #21 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:46am
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Pathetic that a liberal thinks he's an expert on what a libertarian is.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #22 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:49am
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Someday animals won't have to be slaughtered for food, all meat will be grown in labs.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #23 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:59am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:49am:
Someday animals won't have to be slaughtered for food, all meat will be grown in labs. 
How will the animal population be kept under control if we don't kill and eat them? Bring back wolves and mountain lions and let them eat good beef while we eat the products of industrial laboratories?
  
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Jeff
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #24 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:00am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 9:46am:
Pathetic that a liberal thinks he's an expert on what a libertarian is.
The lizard is an authoritarian. That's the exact opposite of liberal. Call it a "progressive" if you want to, but there's not a liberal thought in it's lizard brain.
  
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Don_G
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 1:13pm
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The Opposition wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Yes, they are extreme beliefs. And yes it's true that many libertarians are more moderate.

But there's strong philosophy behind the most extreme, purest versions of the theory being correct. You don't get to have the libertarian beliefs you like because the alternative is force, without accepting the NAP as a whole. You don't get to kill and eat an animal because an animal doesn't have rights and then blast the lady crushing mice with stilettos because animals do have rights.


You only believe animals have the right to be treated humanely by the nonreligious.



Here's what the Mises institute says about blackmail:

https://mises.org/library/defending-blackmailer
In blackmail, however, what is being "threatened" is something that the blackmailer does have a right to do — whether it be exercising the right of free speech, refusing to patronize certain stores, or persuading others to do likewise. What is being threatened is not in itself illegitimate; it is, therefore, not possible to call the "threat" an illegitimate threat.

Blackmail can only be illegitimate when there is a special foresworn relationship between the blackmailer and the blackmailed. A secret-keeper may take a lawyer or a private investigator into his confidence on the condition that the confidence be maintained in secrecy.


If you want to disagree, disagree with the Mises Institute, not me.

Send them a letter worded the way you word your posts to me and see what happens.


So have I. There was a thread about the blackmail thing. Read it if you like.

http://www.libertariansforum.com/cgi-bin/freedom/YaBB.pl?num=1444760288/0

You clearly win this one, whether you're trolling or not.

Libertarians: "We believe X should be legal because it violates no rights."
Progressives: "OMG libertarians believe X!!!"
Libertarians: "You progressives don't get to define libertarianism!!! HISSSSSSS"

The libertarians should have won this one by standing up for their beliefs rather than acting like a bunch of cockroaches in the kitchen when you turn on the light, scurrying for their dark corners where they can congratulate each other on having their rotten beliefs in peace.

The sad thing is, those beliefs are not actually rotten. I believe they're right. I can give you reasons why. The fact that libertarians act like they know their own beliefs are faulty and hiss back underneath the fridge saddens me.

It's perhaps a reaction to the knowledge that their beliefs don't pass the smell test for most people. But to me, that's fine. I can defend them with reason. I can show how they're the result of principles being consistently applied.


Excellent post Oppo! You've been able to interpret each of the points made on the list I've posted. They really are true statements attributable to libertarianism, although not stated in a complimentary way.

And you will defend them!

You've made my point perfectly for me. People like you can be honest libertarians. For all the rational thinkers, it's not going to be possible.

I think that SkyChief can join you on supporting that list, even though you may have to explain to him how you are able to interpret the list.

There's a possibility that MMM might also be supportive of that list too.
  
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Don_G
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #26 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 1:16pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:00am:
The lizard is an authoritarian. That's the exact opposite of liberal. Call it a "progressive" if you want to, but there's not a liberal thought in it's lizard brain.


Not quite the exact opposite but I'll gladly accept it!

Your need to have somebody to talk to mr. Sickler, leads you to say the damnedest things!
  
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MMMark
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #27 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 2:50pm
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Tues. 18/03/13 14:49 EDT
.post #21

Quote:
There's a possibility that MMM might also be supportive of that list too.

MMMark wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
In other words, this list is a wonderful misunderstanding, or misrepresentation, of what libertarianism is.  Anyone who is serious about understanding libertarianism doesn't consult such a list but rather first learns the principles of libertarianism (notably absent from this list and others of its ilk): The Non-Aggression Principle, property, responsibility, self-ownership, voluntary exchange.


Criticism of libertarianism ranges from the scholarly to the juvenile (this list is an example); I welcome the proliferation, which confirms the ascension from obscurity.
  
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Don_G
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #28 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 3:00pm
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MMMark wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 2:50pm:
Tues. 18/03/13 14:49 EDT
.post #21



Criticism of libertarianism ranges from the scholarly to the juvenile (this list is an example); I welcome the proliferation, which confirms the ascension from obscurity.


I've already freely admitted that the list isn't stated in a complimentary fashion. It's not meant to be, it's meant to be insulting to libertarians.

But 'The Opposition' has managed to interpret it as equivalent to the truth on that being proposed by libertarians.

Now that leads to an analysis of each point made in order to determine if it does coincide with libertarians' stated politics and wishes for government. I know of no exceptions but that's the challenge.

I believe 'the Opposition' is correct in not dismissing any of it.

Quote:
I welcome the proliferation, which confirms the ascension from obscurity.


whaaaattttt?

I guess I should take that as meaning that you don't dismiss any of it?
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: 50 Reasons Pseudo-Libertarians are Crazy.
Reply #29 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 4:32pm
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Jeff, how do you know meat grown in the lab won't be just as good as live animals?

As for what Don is, yes, "liberal" doesn't adequately describe those on the left.  They're not into liberty.  But the same is true of, "progressive," like their policies represent progress.  Maybe, "statist?"
  
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