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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Licensing? (Read 697 times)
Sicklers Dink
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #10 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 12:26pm
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Jeff wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 8:28am:
Depending on the soil conditions, it's often safe to dig ditches deeper than four feet.


It's always safe to dig ditches deeper than 4', regardless of the soil conditions. It's when workers go down into those holes that the regulations apply. The regulations state both sloping and shoring requirements.

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One size fits all arbitrary regulations cost everybody money, even if they aren't keeping everybody safe. Assume that people who work in ditches are more knowledgeable about them and more concerned for their own safety than bureaucrats.


The regulations and safety requirements suit all situations. There are no exceptions. period!

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BTW, on average between 1992 and 2001, 54 people died in ditches each year. More died from falling off of bicycles...


The 54 who died obviously didn't adhere to the regulations and requirements. The reason why it was just 54 is because in all other cases, the workers got lucky or were buried alive. (or were partially buried and were saved)

Without the regulations there would be hundred, if not thousands dying every year in that sort of accident. You need only go back and look at statistics before regulations were enacted by government agencies.

The pseudo-libertarian fails to understand and then goes barking up a tree while uninformed. Now you have been informed. Dig yourself a ditch and try out you new knowledge Craig.
edit: I should have also mentioned that if the employer wants to take the more costly route, he can have an engineer certify the excavation safe without sloping or shoring.
  
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Sicklers Dink
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #11 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 12:35pm
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The biggest problem with the pseudo-libertarian is that he/she is always looking for exceptions to the rules so that he/she can allow somebody's life to be risked. If it was their child or grandchild that was being sent into a hole in the ground or sent to a doctor with no credentials, it would be a different story altogether.

Next issue from the list?
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #12 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 3:31pm
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Sicklers Dink wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 12:35pm:
The biggest problem with the pseudo-libertarian is that he/she is always looking for exceptions to the rules so that he/she can allow somebody's life to be risked. If it was their child or grandchild that was being sent into a hole in the ground or sent to a doctor with no credentials, it would be a different story altogether.


Your underlying assumption is that, absent government licensing, professionals such as engineers and doctors have no way to show the public that they have the training, education and experience to provide services.  People don't find doctors based on whether they have a license or not.  The get recommendations from friends or other trusted professionals.  Except under a single payer system I suppose.  In those systems to paraphrase Billy Joel, ~you take what they give you as long as it's free.~

Most hazardous working conditions my son was ever in was carrying an M60 on patrols in Afghanistan.  I can assure you that it was not libertarians who brought him to that little corner of the world.  Nor were the statists at OSHA out there checking catwalks for kickplates.


  

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Jeff
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 5:46pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 10:47am:
Sounds like you were a knowledgeable and caring safety professional.
No, I sometimes worked in ditches.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 5:49pm
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ahhell wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 11:23am:
This is not an unreasonable compromise.
It's not a compromise, it's an alternative.

You can have government mandated licensing to protect lobbying monopolies, or you can have voluntary professional associations.

Guess which model works better on average for everyone who isn't connected with or specially protected by the government?


  
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Jeff
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #15 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 5:51pm
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Sicklers Dink wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 12:26pm:
It's always safe to dig ditches deeper than 4', regardless of the soil conditions.
So you say. Do you have experience working in ditches?

Obviously not.
  
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MMMark
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #16 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 6:30pm
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Wed. 18/03/14 18:29 EDT
.post #32

Don_G:

Are you okay with Pep Boys sending an armed salesman to your door and forcing you to buy snow tires because "statistics show that snow tires save lives"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #17 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 6:32pm
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MMMark wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 6:30pm:
Are you okay with Pep Boys sending an armed salesman to your door and forcing you to buy snow tires because "statistics show that snow tires save lives"?
What? Snow tires prevent ditches from collapsing?
  
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Sicklers Dink
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #18 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 7:27pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
Your underlying assumption is that, absent government licensing, professionals such as engineers and doctors have no way to show the public that they have the training, education and experience to provide services.


That's right. Licensed doctors are recommended by people who have had a good experience. Take away the licensing and anybody can treat patients for whatever they choose. The argument is just too ridiculous to bother with.


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Most hazardous working conditions my son was ever in was carrying an M60 on patrols in Afghanistan.  I can assure you that it was not libertarians who brought him to that little corner of the world.  Nor were the statists at OSHA out there checking catwalks for kickplates.


The military is a relatively safe occupation. Much safer than sawmills or forests where people work and get injured or killed. Statistically, your son's biggest risk of being shot dead is/was by one of his fellow soldiers.

All universal health care systems in the world are rated higher than the US system. Stop punishing yourself.



  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Licensing?
Reply #19 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 9:30pm
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Sicklers Dink wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
That's right. Licensed doctors are recommended by people who have had a good experience. Take away the licensing and anybody can treat patients for whatever they choose. The argument is just too ridiculous to bother with.



The military is a relatively safe occupation. Much safer than sawmills or forests where people work and get injured or killed. Statistically, your son's biggest risk of being shot dead is/was by one of his fellow soldiers.
Which - again - is an example of danger from armed government, not armed civilians.  Just is is the statistic that an American is nine times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist.


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All universal health care systems in the world are rated higher than the US system. Stop punishing yourself.


Not by the rating system in which people are allowed to travel where they want for health care and we keep track of the destinations they choose to go to.  Using that rating scale the U.S.  is number one.  Especially among countries in North America . . .





  

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