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ACH
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #40 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 12:55am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 2nd, 2018 at 12:42am:
They support plenty, like the right to travel. Right-wing nutjobs don't. Like it or not, leftism is fairly libertarian, while rightism is just about diametrically opposed.

Scrap the redistribution and leftism IS libertarianism.


I don't see that myself. Not when the left want's to dictate what kind of car I drive , what kind of light bulbs, ect.

Not to mention the fact that they want to extract money from my income and give it to other people.
The left, and the right for that matter, want to restrict my life and limit my freedom where they choose to.
On the right, we just have a lighter version going about it in a different manner, like the Patriot Act for example.
  
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #41 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 3:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 2nd, 2018 at 12:42am:
Like it or not, leftism is fairly libertarian...

Scrap the redistribution and leftism IS libertarianism.

Wait, wha....   HUH?   Huh

IMO, Leftists and libertarians share two basic principles;   open borders and anti-war.

The similarities stop there.

Leftists lawmakers spend much of their day working to make government more powerful. They certainly don't believe in self-ownership.  And they laugh at our Bill of Rights.   Angry

That's anti-libertarian.   

“No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session.” - Gideon J. Tucker

We're getting a little off topic here. 

If anyone is unclear about the intended purpose of the 2nd amendment, of why the founders knew that the "people" should "keep and bear arms", this makes it crystal clear:

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” - Thomas Jefferson

(I added the bold)
  
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Jeff
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #42 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 1st, 2018 at 9:40pm:
It is something that my father bought for me at Western Auto for my twelfth birthday.  The Marlin version of that .22 I mean.

Yes, the .22 could be said to be similar caliber to the .223 that man AR 15's fire. One is only one one thousandth of an inch larger than the other in diameter.  But they are far different bullets in power and use.
 


Yes, the gun grabbers are silly and ignorant.  They know nothing of the guns they seek to ban.  But we libertarians have to have our eyes wide open and understand the implications of the practical application of our theoretical dedication to freedom. 

In the matter of so-called "assault rifles" we have perfect freedom in many states.  Anyone can buy one and as many as we like.  So libertarians have little to complain about.  Now we have to look at one of the effects of this freedom.

The AR15 is a weapon that is far more suited to a mass shooting by a lunatic than a Ruger .22.  It fires a very destructive bullet and can be fired at rates approaching that of an automatic rifle for thirty rounds and a practices shooter can change magazines in less than two seconds.  Video game play has taught teenagers (who learned little of the Pythagorean Theorem) that it is important not to watch a victim in a mass shooting fall, but to quickly target the next shooter. 

I'm not saying we should support a ban of this or any other gun.  I'm saying that we should be realistic and honest about the consequences of not banning them and counter any such arguments with the consequences of allowing government to make such decisions for us.

 


Being "realistic" resulted in banning Clyde Barrows BARs from general civilian ownership (https://www.range365.com/guns-bonnie-clyde) and the Thompsons used by law enforcement and any other fully automatic weapons (unless you get a Class III license)...

From a law enforcement standpoint, it's not good to be outgunned by amoral sociopaths like Bonnie and Clyde, but the barrow gang wasn't going around shooting up schools or stopping at County fairs on busy days to mow people down.

We have a worse form of amoral sociopaths these days it seems.

But, realistically, banning all guns isn't a solution to amoral sociopaths-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566689/London-murder-rate-overtakes-New...

You have to ban knives too.

From the article-

"According to a report by the Sunday Times, New York City's murder statistics have decreased by 87 per cent since the 1990s.

Meanwhile, London's rate has grown by nearly 40 per cent in just three years, not including deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

Although New York last year had nearly double the number of murders than London, experts are concerned the gap is steadily closing." 

Also from the article (it's apparently illegal to carry a knife in London too)-

"DCS Sean Yates, Scotland Yard's head of knife crime, blamed social media as an increasing factor in escalating grudges between youngsters that led to knife attacks.

He also said courts were failing to enforce a 'two strikes' law aimed at jailing those caught with a knife twice, which was frustrating law enforcement."

Anyway, even banning knives isn't a solution if you are imagining that amoral sociopaths can be prevented from randomly killing people.

The best known solution is to have some law abiding person on hand with a gun.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #43 - Apr 2nd, 2018 at 1:59pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 1st, 2018 at 9:40pm:
It is something that my father bought for me at Western Auto for my twelfth birthday.  The Marlin version of that .22 I mean.

Yes, the .22 could be said to be similar caliber to the .223 that man AR 15's fire. One is only one one thousandth of an inch larger than the other in diameter.  But they are far different bullets in power and use.


I think just as many leftists as rightists would know that. But what is the point in mentioning it other than to demonstrate your knowledge?
 


Quote:
Yes, the gun grabbers are silly and ignorant.  They know nothing of the guns they seek to ban.  But we libertarians have to have our eyes wide open and understand the implications of the practical application of our theoretical dedication to freedom. 


Again, they likely know as much as is necessary to know about the guns they want to ban. They are surely not mistaking the danger with people who own AR type weapons as opposed to people who own .22 rimfire rifles. But I agree they are ignorant in thinking that banning AR type weapons is going to fix the problem. Although I can see the wisdom of trying to phase out weapons with the capabilities that are a huge asset to a shooter. That being in the 'possibility' that instead of 20 dead, there may be just 3 or 4 dead. And with the .22 rimfire, likely less dead.

Quote:
In the matter of so-called "assault rifles" we have perfect freedom in many states.  Anyone can buy one and as many as we like.  So libertarians have little to complain about.  Now we have to look at one of the effects of this freedom.

The AR15 is a weapon that is far more suited to a mass shooting by a lunatic than a Ruger .22.  It fires a very destructive bullet and can be fired at rates approaching that of an automatic rifle for thirty rounds and a practices shooter can change magazines in less than two seconds.  Video game play has taught teenagers (who learned little of the Pythagorean Theorem) that it is important not to watch a victim in a mass shooting fall, but to quickly target the next shooter. 


Again, they likely all know that. But it's good that you have taken the time to repeat it anyway.

Quote:
I'm not saying we should support a ban of this or any other gun.  I'm saying that we should be realistic and honest about the consequences of not banning them and counter any such arguments with the consequences of allowing government to make such decisions for us.


Nobody else is going to make the choice. Or are you suggesting that somebody else will?

As I've said, it could be time for the NRA to cut their losses and relent on the sale of AR type weapons. It would be giving up very little and it could result in saving a whole lot more.

The school kids might have some momentum. It's misdirected but it still could be effective.

The problem is handguns and ahhell is onto that too. And I'm not saying that you consider any guns a problem. That's not important to me either.

 



  
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Jeff
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #44 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 9:54am
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The problem is handguns and ahhell is onto that too.



https://www.theburningplatform.com/2018/03/29/every-word-liberals-say-about-guns...

Here's what's driving the Children's Crusade, they have been deluded into irrational fear. How cruel is that, crippling children with irrational fears?

http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/02/irrational-fear-of-mass-shootings-cant-j?utm_m...
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #45 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 12:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 3rd, 2018 at 9:54am:
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2018/03/29/every-word-liberals-say-about-guns...

Here's what's driving the Children's Crusade, they have been deluded into irrational fear. How cruel is that, crippling children with irrational fears?

Good article.

Delightfully cynical!   

[Leftists] yearn to see us humbled. They ache to see us made into serfs. That we defy them is bad enough. But they cannot tolerate that we maintain our dignity – the dignity of a citizen that comes with having a say in your own governance and exercising your rights with neither apology nor limitation – and that we maintain our dignity in the face of their hatred and contempt.

They want us disarmed because they want us disenfranchised, discouraged, and no longer disobedient. They want us broken."


I like that the self-ownership principle is mentioned.  Self-ownership is the one thing that perplexes all gun-grabbers. They simply can't understand why an individual would demand sovereignty of his/her own person, and why they demand the right to protect that sovereignty.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #46 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 1:13pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 3rd, 2018 at 12:58pm:
Good article.

Delightfully cynical!   

[Leftists] yearn to see us humbled. They ache to see us made into serfs. That we defy them is bad enough. But they cannot tolerate that we maintain our dignity – the dignity of a citizen that comes with having a say in your own governance and exercising your rights with neither apology nor limitation – and that we maintain our dignity in the face of their hatred and contempt.

They want us disarmed because they want us disenfranchised, discouraged, and no longer disobedient. They want us broken."


I like that the self-ownership principle is mentioned.  Self-ownership is the one thing that perplexes all gun-grabbers. They simply can't understand why an individual would demand sovereignty of his/her own person, and why they demand the right to protect that sovereignty.


Ideological Possession! That's a classic example Chief! See Tom's thread.


https://fee.org/articles/the-diagnosis-and-treatment-of-ideological-possession/

You've hooked in perfectly to Craig Sickler's mannerisms. In the future, you should exercise a bit of caution before you go along with him with your kneejerk reactions. His exaggerations he uses to get attention are not to be taken seriously.

You do that for the trolling effect you think you get out of it with him and that's one of the main reasons I call you stupid.

See the article that was posted in the hope that you can learn something from it.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #47 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 2:04pm
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Ideological Possession! That's a classic example Chief! See Tom's thread.

https://fee.org/articles/the-diagnosis-and-treatment-of-ideological-possession/

You do that for the trolling effect you think you get out of it with him and that's one of the main reasons I call you stupid.

See the article that was posted in the hope that you can learn something from it.

I read it. You didn't realize that its tongue-in-cheek?  Oh dear.

It's meant to be humorous, and it is!  Apparently, it was completely lost on you.   LoL!!   Grin    Grin    Smiley

Anyways, let's try to stay on topic.    Smiley
  
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Jeff
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #48 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 5:21pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 3rd, 2018 at 2:04pm:
I read it. You didn't realize that its tongue-in-cheek?  Oh dear.

It's meant to be humorous, and it is!  Apparently, it was completely lost on you.   LoL!!   Grin    Grin    Smiley

Anyways, let's try to stay on topic.    Smiley
I thought it was a good indictment of ideologues.

Donat still thinks hoping that people can be as free as possible is an ideology.

Is it?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Its Time To Repeal The Second Amendment...
Reply #49 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 6:04pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 3rd, 2018 at 5:21pm:
I thought it was a good indictment of ideologues.

Donat still thinks hoping that people can be as free as possible is an ideology.

Is it?

By definition- yes - it's an ideology.  The article is based on the false premise that all ideologies are evil, and must be "cured".

Which of course, is absurd.  That's why the whole article seemed so funny to me.


i·de·ol·o·gy
a system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
  
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