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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Replication Crises (Read 7613 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #250 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:51am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:40am:
That the minds of students learning English as a second language and Math at the same time are less successful in learning math than students who learn math while already understanding English as their native language.
Apples fall to the ground? That was known since prehistoric times, but the simple observation was not physics and didn't lead to understanding anything.

Probably the students just have trouble understanding their math teachers language...

Did you have a control group who were being taught math in their first language while they learned English separately?

How old are these children anyway?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #251 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 10:37am
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This is just an explanation for popular consumption, for laymen, but it is well thought out and well said-

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201402/control-is...

Psychologists are not outsiders looking in, or omniscient beings without human motivations, and perhaps this article lends some background to what I have been saying, or makes it more clear.

"Scientific" psychology arose early in the Progressive Era, when there was a widespread belief that science in the hands of experts could make everything better, including political economy. Marxism was widely seen as a "scientific" means of eliminating greed, poverty, war, crime, injustice etc.etc.

Psychologists (who were philosophers who theorized about human actions and their motivations) were not immune to the lure of Progressivism in general and Marxism in particular, and some of them imagined that, just as "scientific socialism" was a political/economic cure for what ailed the world, "scientific psychology" (if they created it and learned how to use it) could not only cure what ailed people's minds individually, but could also contribute to the Great Progressive Enlightenment that was sweeping the world by helping prepare people's troubled minds for Marxism. (Or just killing them off.)

The foundation of all "progressive" theories is an idea that control of the masses (or of individuals) by experts can lead to good results.

That idea underlies "scientific psychology", even if it is expressed as a desire to have experts teach people how to control themselves, or just drug them up. Or sterilize them. That was a popular solution for a while too.



Edit:They still do this in China, where they are still hoping to establish "scientific socialism"-

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-scot/shock-the-gay-away-secrets-of-early-ga...

You'll notice it took until 1973 for ''scientific psychology" as encoded and practiced by the APA to stop trying to punish people out of being gay.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #252 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 10:56am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 10:37am:
This is just an explanation for popular consumption, for laymen, but it is well thought out and well said-

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201402/control-is...

Psychologists are not outsiders looking in, or omniscient beings without human motivations, and perhaps this article lends some background to what I have been saying, or makes it more clear.

"Scientific" psychology arose early in the Progressive Era, when there was a widespread belief that science in the hands of experts could make everything better, including political economy. Marxism was widely seen as a "scientific" means of eliminating greed, poverty, war, crime, injustice etc.etc.

Psychologists (who were philosophers who theorized about human actions and their motivations) were not immune to the lure of Progressivism in general and Marxism in particular, and some of them imagined that, just as "scientific socialism" was a political/economic cure for what ailed the world, "scientific psychology" (if they created it and learned how to use it) could not only cure what ailed people's minds individually, but could also contribute to the Great Progressive Enlightenment that was sweeping the world by helping prepare people's troubled minds for Marxism. (Or just killing them off.)

The foundation of all "progressive" theories is an idea that control of the masses (or of individuals) by experts can lead to good results.

That idea underlies "scientific psychology", even if it is expressed as a desire to have experts teach people how to control themselves, or just drug them up. Or sterilize them. That was a popular solution for a while too.



Edit:They still do this in China, where they are still hoping to establish "scientific socialism"-

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-scot/shock-the-gay-away-secrets-of-early-ga...

You'll notice it took until 1973 for ''scientific psychology" as encoded and practiced by the APA to stop trying to punish people out of being gay.


Well thank you for finally revealing where you got your ideas about psychology not being a science. Generally speaking, a magazine that you can read waiting in line at Walmart would not be a scholarly journal.

But, as with the well written but fictional novel The Killer Angels, you read it and then fixated on it to the exclusion of any new information.

Not your fault. That’s a feature of autism.
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Don_G
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #253 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:54pm
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Craig Sickler (billie, jeff), burnsred has destroyed you in this debate so maybe it's time to retire gracefully.

He was the first to push the pretense of being the professional and so has caused the 'spin' to go in his direction.

You should have jumped on that pretense early on because he created it just for this thread.

I'm a psychiatrist (adult) too so if you need some advice just ask. Even though it's too late to counterspin his spin.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #254 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:09pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 10:56am:
Well thank you for finally revealing where you got your ideas about psychology not being a science. Generally speaking, a magazine that you can read waiting in line at Walmart would not be a scholarly journal.


Ha ha. I have believed that "scientific psychology" is a fraud for decades.

I picked that article because I thought it would be easy enough for even you to understand.

Did the authors credentials not meet your standards?

Do you disagree in whole or part with what he said?

You use the same techniques of debate and discussion that "scientific socialists" use; Attacking the messenger, claiming superior knowledge without ever revealing any, relying on "expert credentials" to "prove" your assertions. Tsk tsk. There's probably a psychological term for such behavior...
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #255 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:13pm
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Quote:
He was the first to push the pretense of being the professional and so has caused the 'spin' to go in his direction.

I thought it best to let him expose his own lack of understanding and knowledge, and he;'s made it pretty obvious he doesn't understand even the basic processes of scientific methods.

I'm not delusional enough to imagine that a Masters degree in psychology means anything on it's own, even if he has one.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #256 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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Master burnsred, it never hurts for someone to step in and even the playing field.

You may want to reaffirm your credentials a little. It has everything to do with positive spin as opposed to making wild assertions on being qualified to speak out.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #257 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:40pm
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Master burnsred, it never hurts for someone to step in and even the playing field.

You may want to reaffirm your credentials a little. It has everything to do with positive spin as opposed to making wild assertions on being qualified to speak out.
Credentials don't mean much these days. The "progressive" take over of colleges and universities has seen to that.

Besides, what could a Master of Science degree in a non-scientific field actually mean?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #258 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 4:27pm
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Red, I'm sure you understand that I'm only ridiculing you because your arrogance invites it?

Anyway, here's a vignette of the "scientific" method you claim for your form of psychology.

The village Healer hears word that people are dying of something that looked like really bad chicken pox, but got worse and most everybody that caught it died.

So the Healer decides to investigate, and being a scientist, he makes careful observations and records them all.

The symptoms he learns of are fever, body ache, headache, chills, vomiting, confusion and then an eruption of small poxes all over the body, and then, usually, death.

He records them all carefully and submits them to the EHA (the Elbonian Healers Association) which deals neatly with the problem by deciding to label it "Smallpox" and put it in the Big Book of EHA diseases.

Who could claim that's not scientific?

Oh. I don't know whether the ideas came from official certified Healers or just from Mothers and Wives and Grandmothers, but, the recommended treatments were herbs and cool cloths.

Hey, some people lived through it...
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #259 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:00pm
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Let's talk seriously as adults Red.

If you insist that I dredge up all the instances of your arrogance in this conversation, I will.

If you don't want that (which I have been thinking of doing for fun), you could just reply rationally to my ridicule.

That would be easier for me, thanks.

Edit: Cripes! I hope I don't induce your latent AIBD!
  
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