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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Replication Crises (Read 6328 times)
SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #260 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:12pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
Let's talk seriously as adults Red.

If you insist that I dredge up all the instances of your arrogance in this conversation, I will.

If you don't want that (which I have been thinking of doing for fun),


Then by all means, do it, Billie!  Have fun with it!

While you're doing it, let me explain why I always seem to sound arrogant with you.  As with most of my explanations (and with the human mind), there are several components:

-As I've said in the past, "that's how I roll."  I am snarky because I like to be snarky.  So that part's not on you.  I'm that way with Don when he's not being a stalker troll.  I was that way with Kaz until it drove him off the board.

-You make it too easy for me to sound arrogant in three discussions that we've had:

= You claim to be a libertarian on a forum that is literally called "liberarian's forum."  Yet your beliefs are barely distinguishable from those of Ronald Reagan.  If I went on to a conservative's forum and claimed to be conservative but talked pure ideological libertarianism, you would be able to be arrogant in debunking me.

= Your middle-school belief that the civil War was a great crusade against slavery.  You admitted that you learned your beliefs from a single novel and then desperately tried to google up some history to back up your bizarre claims about Lincoln the anti-slavery crusader.

Now you debate a graduate level psychology student citing articles from Psychology Today.  The only psychologists who are interested in that magazine are the ones who sell it. 

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you could just reply rationally to my ridicule.

That would be easier for me, thanks.

Edit: Cripes! I hope I don't induce your latent AIBD!


How does one respond rationally to ridicule?  Better yet, why would on respond rationally to  ridicule? 
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #261 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:07pm
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I've been following the conversation and I don't really see much arrogance, but it's possible that being a rare self-introspecting NPD, my viewpoint is a little skewed.

Here's what I've seen, over and over and over:

Jeffe: "Psychology isn't a real science because no one knows how the salmon do it!"

Burnsy: "Here are some reasons I think psychology qualifies as scientific."

Jeffe: "I don't understand those! BLAAAAAARRRG!!!"
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #262 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:14am
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:12pm:
Then by all means, do it, Billie!  Have fun with it!

While you're doing it, let me explain why I always seem to sound arrogant with you.
You sound arrogant because you are.

Your first response to my contention that "scientific psychology" is not scientific was to infer that I am an uneducated person (perhaps an electrician?) who couldn't possibly understand the "science of psychology, and that because you have an "advanced degree" that you are an expert in the understanding of the human mind.

Your last attempt at the same tactic was to completely discount an informative article by a well credentialed psychologist because it was published in Psychology Today, which you tried to imply was on a level with the Inquirer.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #263 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:42am
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:12pm:
Now you debate a graduate level psychology student citing articles from Psychology Today.  The only psychologists who are interested in that magazine are the ones who sell it. 


How does one respond rationally to ridicule? 
The best response to ridicule is a rational response, which you seem incapable of.

I ridicule you for claiming that applying a label to a conglomeration of observed symptoms is somehow "science". It is not. Medieval healers described the symptoms of smallpox and named it, then proceeded to "treat" it with herbs, because they didn't actually learn anything scientific about smallpox just by naming it and describing the symptoms.

Your "experiment"  in "scientific psychology" amounted to observing that children who haven't yet mastered English have a hard time learning math from English speaking teachers. Yeah, so what? Teachers have known that for hundreds of years.

What was your conclusion? That knowing English makes learning math easier because English is a more "mathematical" language? No? Something else then? Did you reach a conclusion?

Issac Newton also observed something that everybody else had already seen and knew, but his observation led him to various hypothesis about gravity and to experimentation and then to the development of his laws of motion. His conclusion about the falling apple was F=MA, which didn't actually describe gravity, but did describe how gravity (and other 'forces') works in the Newtonian world. His experiments are repeatable and led to a real advance in scientific knowledge.

Long before I posted the link to the "control is the issue" article from Psychology Today, I posited the same thing by a short review of the origins of "scientific psychology" and how I believe it is the handmaiden of Progressivism in general and just as unscientific as the economic theories of Marx.
I also posited that to believe in "scientific psychology" requires belief in the root idea of Progressivism, that people/societies/economies can be "improved" by "experts" using science. Like shock aversion therapy and Zoloft.

Your response was arrogant as it has been consistently through the discussion, you say I'm just not smart enough to understand because I didn't get a degree.

You haven't really responded at all other than to claim superior knowledge, and you still haven't told me how "scientific psychologists" define 'mind', although you did claim to have "studied the structure of the mind".
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #264 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:59am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Jeffe: "Psychology isn't a real science because no one knows how the salmon do it!"

Thanks, I'd forgotten about that.

Red claimed to have a "scientific" understanding of "mind", so I thought I'd see if he really knew anything about even a very simple mind, the mind of a salmon.

It seems obvious to me that the human mind retains the sort of "instinctive" behaviors that are exhibited by say, Lemurs, but that layers of complexity have been added...

Memory is of great interest to me, and I hoped to learn more about it from an expert scientific psychologist (Red). I know that areas of the human brain have been located that seem usually to be devoted to memory of different types, and was hypothesizing that salmon "remember" where they hatched out... It seems ridiculous, but perhaps the salmon "mind" is capable of using it's primitive brain to store great amounts of memories?

I also know that human brains are sometimes capable of being 're-programed' to some extent so that damaged or lost parts can have their apparent function transferred to other areas of the brain, and that sometimes, apparently normal people have been found to have brains that were no more than thin layers around the inside of their skull... Is it 'mind' that is able to control the brains function to that degree?

Anyway, Red doesn't know, but he's willing to label people ODD and call it a "disorder" of the mind. (Disclaimer- My older brother was as ODD as they come, but he learned to control it because my parents would not allow it to continue in their house. No drugs or scientific therapies were required, just determined parenting.)

I have no complaint with philosophical branches of psychology. It's simply that "scientific psychology" like "scientific socialism", is a fraud and always has been.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #265 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:29am
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 9:12pm:
Now you debate a graduate level psychology student citing articles from Psychology Today. 
Actual debate requires arguments in response, not mere assertions of superior knowledge.

If you want to take issue with the Psychology Today article, be aware that I didn't write it.

This is what the author says about himself-

"I received my Master's degree in Counseling Psychology from Florida International University, am a state Licensed Mental Health Counselor, and a Certified Addiction Professional."

See? He has a Master's degree! And work experience too! And he's Certified!
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #266 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:47am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:29am:
Actual debate requires arguments in response, not mere assertions of superior knowledge.

If you want to take issue with the Psychology Today article, be aware that I didn't write it.


Right.  So if I prove it wrong six ways to Sunday, you can just say, "take it up with Mr. _____ " instead of admitting you posted a bad argument.

Quote:
This is what the author says about himself-

"I received my Master's degree in Counseling Psychology from Florida International University, am a state Licensed Mental Health Counselor, and a Certified Addiction Professional."

See? He has a Master's degree! And work experience too! And he's Certified!


Then he is not quite my peer, but much closer than you.

I'm not on par with you when it comes to whatever your job us.  I don't care if you're a shoe shine boy or a nuclear physicist, I'm not going to tell you I know more about it than you do.

Did you say you were an engineer?  How would I sound if I said, "Engineering isn't science!  You build a bridge out of think steel beams and it will be safer than one built out of pine two by fours.  Any kid knows that.  If engineering were a science, we wouldn't have so many bridge collapses.  Engineering is just a Soviet plan to spread socialism as this article proves:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_engineers"
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #267 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:01am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:42am:
The best response to ridicule is a rational response, which you seem incapable of.
Actually, I have given you several rational responses, which you responded to with more ridicule.  Once I realize that the ridicule is your goal and not some quest to learn something, then rational responses are unproductive.



  

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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #268 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:09am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 7:14am:
You sound arrogant because you are.

Your first response to my contention that "scientific psychology" is not scientific was to infer that I am an uneducated person (perhaps an electrician?) who couldn't possibly understand the "science of psychology, and that because you have an "advanced degree" that you are an expert in the understanding of the human mind.


Actually, I only mentioned that I have a masters and am a PhD candidate in response to Oppo's statement that he has a masters and is a PhD candidate.  I don't remember you even being a part of that conversation.  I had no idea that me saying that would send you into such a fit of jealousy and envy. 

Quote:
Your last attempt at the same tactic was to completely discount an informative article by a well credentialed psychologist because it was published in Psychology Today, which you tried to imply was on a level with the Inquirer.


Long ago I was watching People's Court and one of the plaintiffs was a law student.  He told Wapner, "Black's Law Dictionary defines consideration as . . . "  Wapner said, "You don't quote Black's Law Dictionary to a judge."  Psychology Today is a way to make money by entertaining laymen.  No professional in the field would cite it to another professional in the field.  It would be like quoting Bill Nye to a physics professor. 
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #269 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 4:39pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:47am:
Right.  So if I prove it wrong six ways to Sunday, you can just say, "take it up with Mr. _____ " instead of admitting you posted a bad argument.



That's one of my criticisms. You can't just claim my arguments and theories and proposals are bad.

Certainly not simply on the "authority" of your "graduate degree in scientific psychology".

If you want to show that my arguments are bad, you will have to marshal up some better arguments. Smiley

That's how science works. The pronouncements of the Pope have never been scientific, no matter that he has terrific credentials.
  
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