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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Replication Crises (Read 6277 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #270 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 9:47am:
Then he is not quite my peer, but much closer than you.


Is this an argument from blood or knowledge.

All the "Peers of the Realm" always claimed "special" status, which didn't at all guarantee that they weren't dunderheads. Cry
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #271 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:55am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 13th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
If you insist that I dredge up all the instances of your arrogance in this conversation, I will.



Yes, I insist!

Start a new thread titled “SnarkySack’s Greatest Snarks”

Looking forward to it!

Thanks.
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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The Opposition
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #272 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:12pm
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:09am:
Actually, I only mentioned that I have a masters and am a PhD candidate in response to Oppo's statement that he has a masters and is a PhD candidate.  I don't remember you even being a part of that conversation.  I had no idea that me saying that would send you into such a fit of jealousy and envy. 


Long ago I was watching People's Court and one of the plaintiffs was a law student.  He told Wapner, "Black's Law Dictionary defines consideration as . . . "  Wapner said, "You don't quote Black's Law Dictionary to a judge."  Psychology Today is a way to make money by entertaining laymen.  No professional in the field would cite it to another professional in the field.  It would be like quoting Bill Nye to a physics professor. 


If anything, this thread is a testament to Jeffe's trolling powers.

This is what you get when someone has the power to throw out absolutely pure attacks on character and somehow make one feel compelled to address them. The last real issue that was being argued was whether psychology was a real science.

Psychology, done correctly, is absolutely a real science, regardless of how many psychologists do it incorrectly, refuse to hold themselves to any sort of standards, or aren't real scientists.

The analogy about the alien rovers was particularly good. It served to illustrate that "because you can't know everything" or even just that you can't know one thing, is no excuse to give up on studying the world and everything in it. It's certainly no excuse to write off any observations gleaned through the scientific method as unscientific.

If there's a problem, it's with the scientific method being an honour system. At the testing hypotheses stage, you have to try as hard as you possibly can to debunk your own hypothesis. This is absolute economic masochism since it may impact your theory's profitability directly and there is, as of now, no penalty for not actually doing that and simply pretending to.

The worst thing I can say about psychology is that it seems to disproportionately attract people (not you, obviously) who just want to make declarations and don't want to be rigorous.

But honey attracts flies and that's no reason to declare that honey is somehow bad.

Find a way for the scientific method not to have to be an honour system. Any and all objections to psychology will disappear.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #273 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 2:48pm
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:12pm:
If anything, this thread is a testament to Jeffe's trolling powers.

This is what you get when someone has the power to throw out absolutely pure attacks on character and somehow make one feel compelled to address them.
I am challenging the idea the "scientific" psychology is actually scientific.

Red feels compelled to say in reply that I am unqualified to hold opinions on the subject because I am not his peer in official Degrees and Certifications. That is the personal attack, and it's against me.

Advanced Degrees in Psychology are granted by University trained psychologists, who learned what they know from other University trained psychologists...

What they all call "advances in the science" are actually just relabeling and/or abandoning (reluctantly) things like shock treatment to "cure" homosexuality.

It is the core of the "science" that is flawed, the belief that they understand, or can understand the human mind, and that they know enough about hoe it works to alter it, and that alterations they seek to make are for the better.

My conception of the human mind includes such things as free will and conscience, which psychologists of the philosophical variety acknowledge as hugely important, and "scientific" psychologists don't (so far as I know) even admit exist and certainly don't attempt to describe scientifically.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #274 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 6:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
I am challenging the idea the "scientific" psychology is actually scientific.

Red feels compelled to say in reply that I am unqualified to hold opinions on the subject because I am not his peer in official Degrees and Certifications. That is the personal attack, and it's against me.

Advanced Degrees in Psychology are granted by University trained psychologists, who learned what they know from other University trained psychologists...

What they all call "advances in the science" are actually just relabeling and/or abandoning (reluctantly) things like shock treatment to "cure" homosexuality.

It is the core of the "science" that is flawed, the belief that they understand, or can understand the human mind, and that they know enough about hoe it works to alter it, and that alterations they seek to make are for the better.

My conception of the human mind includes such things as free will and conscience, which psychologists of the philosophical variety acknowledge as hugely important, and "scientific" psychologists don't (so far as I know) even admit exist and certainly don't attempt to describe scientifically.


You're mixing up your timeline a little.  I stated my credentials in the field of psychology before I had any idea that you have such an issue with it.  You said that it was not science and I explained how psychologist use the scientific method in research which is science by the most rigorous definition.  It was only when you denied that clearly scientific research plan is psychology (because you are locked into "psychology isn't science"), quoted pop psychology writers, complained about my use of "jargon," and claimed a half-century quest to find science in psychology that I realized how over your head you were. 

I was only trying to be helpful by recommending you learn more about the field or in the alternative, simply ignore it. 


  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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The Opposition
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #275 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:22pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
My conception of the human mind includes such things as free will and conscience, which psychologists of the philosophical variety acknowledge as hugely important, and "scientific" psychologists don't (so far as I know) even admit exist and certainly don't attempt to describe scientifically.


I'll take a stab at explaining it to you from an evolutionary perspective if you'll stop telling me to kill myself.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #276 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:12am
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SnarkySack wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 6:09pm:
You said that it was not science and I explained how psychologist use the scientific method in research which is science by the most rigorous definition.

Right, you even told me that you observed that children learning English as a second language have more difficulties learning math than do children who already speak English. Probably you made graphs and charts and analyzed the raw data to see if the differences you noted were actually significant...

I'll ask you again, what did you learn about the minds of children from your observations? What are your conclusions?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #277 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:15am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:22pm:
I'll take a stab at explaining it to you from an evolutionary perspective if you'll stop telling me to kill myself.
I never "told" you to kill yourself, I just suggested that you consider it, but, if you will explain the evolution of conscience in humans, I promise to never suggest it again. Thanks.

Probably, so we know we are on the same page, you should let me know if you are using a standard definition of conscience, maybe link to one you like best. Thanks.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #278 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:32am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:12am:
Right, you even told me that you observed that children learning English as a second language have more difficulties learning math than do children who already speak English. Probably you made graphs and charts and analyzed the raw data to see if the differences you noted were actually significant...

I'll ask you again, what did you learn about the minds of children from your observations? What are your conclusions?


You have the wrong impression of my dissertation.  I haven't completed it yet, I'm in the phase where I am researching existing literature* to see what studies have been done that would be similar to mine and to verify that there is a gap in existing literature that would call for a study like mine.

There have been studies on the effects of similar interventions on progress in learning to read.  Those researchers concluded that the intervention relieved the cognitive load on the working memory which facilitated the students' learning.  My conclusions will have to wait for the results of the experiment.**

I having a feeling of deja vu in typing that.  I'm sure I told you this before. 

Explaining the jargon:

*"Literature" meaning peer reviewed articles in professional journals, not like Mark Twain and William Shakespeare.

**Technically a quasi-experiment because the sample is not truly random since it is almost impossible to select a truly random sample of humans.  The randomness comes in when I split the non-random sample into experimental and control groups.
  

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The Opposition
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #279 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:35am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:15am:
I never "told" you to kill yourself, I just suggested that you consider it, but, if you will explain the evolution of conscience in humans, I promise to never suggest it again. Thanks.

Probably, so we know we are on the same page, you should let me know if you are using a standard definition of conscience, maybe link to one you like best. Thanks.


I don't think everyone has the same definition of conscience anyway. The basic knowledge of right and wrong as well as the inclination to do right, I suppose.

It probably evolved because groups that didn't tear each other apart were more successful than groups whose members had only pure self-interest on their minds.

Imagine there's a genetic trait that says don't murder members of your own group. Some groups murder their own, while the groups that all have this trait do not. If the groups, rather than simply the individuals, compete, the groups with selfish members get wiped out and the groups with members who don't infight do better. This explains why we shouldn't murder or steal.

Same with groups whose members always choose an action that is harmful to that individual as long as it benefits the group overall. This explains charity and other forms of kindness.

And groups that keep out cheaters? They do better still. This explains the idea of punishment.

Where groups don't compete, and only individuals do, you're just going to advantage the sociopath.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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