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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Replication Crises (Read 7685 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #630 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:46pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Yes, and I’m happy to explain once again. 

Psychologists may refer clients to psychiatrists if they feel that some kind of medical intervention, i. e., a prescription, is needed.
You said MD's sent patients to psychiatrists to have prescriptions written.
  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #631 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
I can’t make a blanket statement that no mental disorder can or should be treated with medication.  What I do say is that once a person sees a psychiatrist, the probability of being prescribed something is very high.  That’s what psychiatrists do.  They are more and more allowing psychologists and counselors to provide what they somewhat derisively call “talk therapy.”  When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Psychiatrists have just recently started allowing mind scientists to talk to people?

Who is deriding talking to people, and especially listening to them?

Are you sure there isn't a crony relationship between psychiatrists (their Association ) and Big Pharma? I bet they go on gambling cruises off the South of France with each other.

Anyway, you're dissing psychiatrists very heavily here.
  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #632 - May 14th, 2018 at 2:57pm
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Jeff wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Psychiatrists have just recently started allowing mind scientists to talk to people?


This is where being trained in both special education and psychology come in handy.  Another poster might call you a dumbass for that question.  Fortunately, I know that a tendency to take everything completely literally, or to believe that each word can have one meaning only is a feature common in patients with the mental disorder known as "the autism spectrum."  Autism doesn't always include a low IQ so I assume that you think "allowing" only means granting permission by a person who is also able to withhold that permission.  Since you do not have a low IQ as far as I know, you will be able to understand that in this case "allowing" means that the psychiatrists are not willing to provide the talk therapy themselves so therefore psychologists are able to provide it. 

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Who is deriding talking to people, and especially listening to them?


It's talk as therapy that they deride, not the act of talking and listening.

Quote:
Are you sure there isn't a crony relationship between psychiatrists (their Association ) and Big Pharma? I bet they go on gambling cruises off the South of France with each other.


I'm sure that there is on both the organization and the individual level.  In any doctor's office, the pharma reps are pretty easy to spot.  Not especially pretty, but dolled up, usually blonde and usually wearing a woman's skirt suit with a short skirt, low blouse or both.  These marketing majors are tasked with convincing doctors to try the latest behavioral snake oil on their patients. 

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Anyway, you're dissing psychiatrists very heavily here.


Not in general.  Psychiatrists prescribing medication is often the only way to treat patients with severe mental disorders that make them dangerous to themselves and others.  Those medications may reduce the need for institutionalization or make institutionalization safer and more effective than if the medicines were not given.  It isn't ideal, but then mental illness never is.

My objection is to the use of behavioral medication to keep students from getting on teachers' nerves.  Psychologists work hard at scientific research to find effective ways to help children with mild behavior disorders to be able to function in school.  Psychiatrists too often bypass that in favor of chemicals.

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You said MD's sent patients to psychiatrists to have prescriptions written.


Yes, family practitioners often do that.  So do psychologists.  I guess there could be a long list of people who might potentially refer someone to a psychiatrist.   
  

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Jeff
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #633 - May 14th, 2018 at 3:05pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
Since you do not have a low IQ as far as I know, you will be able to understand that in this case "allowing" means that the psychiatrists are not willing to provide the talk therapy themselves so therefore psychologists are able to provide it. 
You're wrong, I'm not "smart enough" to see that me not wanting to do something "allows" you to do it.

If I don't want to talk to you, that doesn't "allow" Donat to talk to you, since Donat can talk to you anyway (if he wants to) whether I want to talk to you or not. I can't "allow" something that is already permitted.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #634 - May 14th, 2018 at 3:20pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
You're wrong, I'm not "smart enough" to see that me not wanting to do something "allows" you to do it.

If I don't want to talk to you, that doesn't "allow" Donat to talk to you, since Donat can talk to you anyway (if he wants to) whether I want to talk to you or not. I can't "allow" something that is already permitted.


Wow.

Ok . . . let me explain it to you in some more ways. 

If a lawyer doesn't want to do leg work by going around interviewing witnesses in a case, that allows a private detective to perform that task.  Of course the private detective could have gone and interviewed those witness anyway, even if the lawyer already did, but I don't see why anyone would pay him to do that.

To take a libertarian example, if a restaurant called "Righties Retreat" discriminates against left-handed people that would allow a competitor to succeed by serving those people.  Obviously, the competitor could have just opened up a restaurant called "Southpaws" anytime, but the opportunity comes from the fact that the first restaurant turns away business.

If an engineer doesn't feel like making blueprints, that "allows" a draftsman to do it instead.  Again, the draftsman had the right all along to make as many blueprints as he felt like and had the equipment for, but there was no reason to if the engineer was going to make them.

I'm guessing that everyone except you understands this.

   
  

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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #635 - May 14th, 2018 at 5:03pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
I guess there could be a long list of people who might potentially refer someone to a psychiatrist.   
Including friends, family and even just self referrals where you call up and make an appointment.

Being just a grad student, you probably haven't learned that yet.
  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #636 - May 14th, 2018 at 5:05pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 3:20pm:
Wow.

Ok . . . let me explain it to you in some more ways. 

If a lawyer doesn't want to do leg work by going around interviewing witnesses in a case, that allows a private detective to perform that task. 
Private detectives can investigate whatever they want to investigate, they don't need permission from a lawyer.
  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #637 - May 14th, 2018 at 5:08pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 3:20pm:
Wow.

Ok . . . let me explain it to you in some more ways. 

If a lawyer doesn't want to do leg work by going around interviewing witnesses in a case, that allows a private detective to perform that task.  Of course the private detective could have gone and interviewed those witness anyway, even if the lawyer already did, but I don't see why anyone would pay him to do that.

To take a libertarian example, if a restaurant called "Righties Retreat" discriminates against left-handed people that would allow a competitor to succeed by serving those people.  Obviously, the competitor could have just opened up a restaurant called "Southpaws" anytime, but the opportunity comes from the fact that the first restaurant turns away business.
How can they do that? Make you show your hands to  the bouncer and let him judge whether you are allowed in?

You are zoned out right now.


  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #638 - May 14th, 2018 at 5:11pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 3:20pm:
If an engineer doesn't feel like making blueprints, that "allows" a draftsman to do it instead.
Engineers can be of more value as Engineers, which is why Draftsmen are paid to make engineering drawings, because Draftsmen cannot in general be of any use as Engineers.

Good Draftsmen are invaluable to Engineers. Make friends with them and they will help you.
  
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Re: The Replication Crises
Reply #639 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:12pm
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Jeff wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 5:11pm:
Engineers can be of more value as Engineers, which is why Draftsmen are paid to make engineering drawings, because Draftsmen cannot in general be of any use as Engineers.

Good Draftsmen are invaluable to Engineers. Make friends with them and they will help you.
It depends. If you are a bad Engineer and an asshole, the Draftsman probably won't help you. There are obligations.

I also know about bad Draftsman and bad Engineers (Architectural in specific), but in the instance, am convinced it was a lazy incompetent architect that was an asshole too, so his Draftsmen followed his instructions to the letter and made him look like an ass.
  
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