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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ideological Possession (Read 723 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #40 - Apr 5th, 2018 at 9:05pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
Mass movements in America are oriented around presidents?

Like rallying around FDR to create a "New Deal" or around LBJ to create a "Great Society"?

Sure, it can be around presidents. Or it can be a political agenda. Mass movements like the Antifas wanting to disarm America.  They lie and spread propaganda designed to attract extremists. Soros pays for it.  It works well - Useful idiots pile on the wagon.

I saw a video where a college student walks aroud his campus and asks other students about banning "assault weapons".  Naturally, each response was "Yes - absolutely - all assault weapons should be banned."

The student making the video then asks each one "Can you tell me what an 'assault weapon' is?" Not ONE of the respondents knew. 

Brainwashing is a vital part of any mass movement, be it political, religious, or nationalist.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #41 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 6:25pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 5th, 2018 at 9:05pm:
Sure, it can be around presidents.
When was it, ever? Which President?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #42 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:54am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 6th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
When was it, ever? Which President?

I think FDR.  He led the "New Deal" movement and the "War" movement.  Americans rallied around him.

Also (to a much lesser degree) Trump.  The people who rally around Trump do so because of their ideologies, not because they think Trump is a magnanimous leader.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #43 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:54am:
I think FDR.  He led the "New Deal" movement and the "War" movement.  Americans rallied around him.

Also (to a much lesser degree) Trump.  The people who rally around Trump do so because of their ideologies, not because they think Trump is a magnanimous leader.


My guess is that you're wrong on Trump's people. They're being denied their ideologies being fulfilled but are full of trust and hope in Trump. Those kind of people would look at Trump with a hard-on the same way they would look at any of their masculine heroes.

I think that Trump is demonstrating that political ideology is not all that important anymore in your country.

Republicans have always claiming to be most interested in stopping big government spending. Yet look at what Trump has done and notice that it doesn't hurt his popularity.

Or does it? Are the Republicans turning away from Trump en mass? Are libertarians as a group showing contempt for Trump?

Not on this forum so far. Maybe the party is?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #44 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:25pm
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Republicans have always claiming to be most interested in stopping big government spending.

Indeed they have, and it's a BIG FAT LIE.

Republicans like to spend just like the Dems.  The difference between them is they want to spend it on the M.I.C. instead of food stamps, EBT Cards, and MediCare.

Quote:
Are the Republicans turning away from Trump en mass?

Some are.  He lost a lot of prominent Republicans when he caved and signed that idiotic $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill a couple of weeks ago.   Now the only people who support Trump are the brain-dead zombies who will support him no matter what he does. But the zombies won't carry Trump in 2020. There's simply not enough of them.

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Are libertarians as a group showing contempt for Trump?

Not on this forum so far. Maybe the party is?

I get newsletters from the LP regularly because I'm a (paid) member. Virtually all of LP positions on Trump are negative. Trump is openly anti-immigration and anti-free trade.  That probably doesn't sit well with most libertarians, I would guess.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #45 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:54am:
Also (to a much lesser degree) Trump.  The people who rally around Trump do so because of their ideologies, not because they think Trump is a magnanimous leader.
I guess we can only hope the TwoParties offer us some magnanimous options next time. Cheesy
  
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Jeff
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #46 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:32pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:25pm:
Republicans like to spend just like the Dems.  The difference between them is they want to spend it on the M.I.C. instead of food stamps, EBT Cards, and MediCare.

Spending on everything keeps going up, no matter what the TwoParty factions whine about.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #47 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 1:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:25pm:
Indeed they have, and it's a BIG FAT LIE.

Republicans like to spend just like the Dems.  The difference between them is they want to spend it on the M.I.C. instead of food stamps, EBT Cards, and MediCare.

Some are.  He lost a lot of prominent Republicans when he caved and signed that idiotic $1.3 Trillion Omnibus Spending Bill a couple of weeks ago.   Now the only people who support Trump are the brain-dead zombies who will support him no matter what he does. But the zombies won't carry Trump in 2020. There's simply not enough of them.


You could be right that the Republicans are dead meat, but it's likely way too soon to predict that. Trump might not last until then and that would save the Republican party. Otherwise it's going to be a Dem massacre of the R's, as you suggest. You must suggest because there's no way the libertarians will move in to take the place of the R's.

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I get newsletters from the LP regularly because I'm a (paid) member. Virtually all of LP positions on Trump are negative. Trump is openly anti-immigration and anti-free trade.  That probably doesn't sit well with most libertarians, I would guess.


They might care? The people who support the Republicans don't care all that much. To begin with, Trump's stand on being anti-immigration is hugely popular with his base and a lot of Republicans that hold their noses on other issues. Also, free trade isn't supported by the right. Some may pretend to support it.

It makes no fuking difference whatsoever what a few libertarians think. Don't let that clowd your judgment on political issues. Trump, under his Republican banner has taken politics further away from libertarian ideals. Those two issues are the obvious ones.

The 'good' in the libertarian position on those two issues is commendable. But it's become un-Americans. Sorry! But that's just the way it is.

Would you like to know where to look for support on immigration and free trade?

Haha, I would tell you if I thought for a minute you don't know!

Why Chief, it has to be anti-Trump!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #48 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 2:59pm
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Trump, under his Republican banner has taken politics further away from libertarian ideals. Those two issues are the obvious ones.

The 'good' in the libertarian position on those two issues is commendable. But it's become un-Americans. Sorry! But that's just the way it is.

I agree, Trump HAS has taken politics further away from libertarian ideals.  Is this a surprise to anyone?  Who expected (or even hoped for) Trump to promote a liberarian agenda?    I sure didn't.  I don't think ANY libertarians did.

“Libertarians are the party of peaceful trade with all nations and entangling alliances with none -  Trump’s reckless military aggressiveness and trade wars are quite the opposite.”
  - LNC  Executive Director, Wes Benedict
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Ideological Possession
Reply #49 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 5:11pm
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Are libertarians as a group showing contempt for Trump?

Not on this forum so far. Maybe the party is?


Contempt is not my style. I will tell you that Trump is one of the least libertarian presidents ever, and his xenophobic policies are among the most immoral, but to ask me to blame him or his base for that would be asking me to blame people for wanting to stay alive.

The xenophobes are just choosing their safety over the rights of others, just like gun control fanatics do. Just like every human does.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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