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thermf5
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Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Apr 7th, 2018 at 4:17am
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Market? Basically where I'm coming from is if you make something that's reverse engineer. Or is inspired by another person's work should you not have the right in a free market to sell it wasn't the idea of the government enforcing patents and intellectual property inherently antifree market what do you guys have to say about this
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #1 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:03am
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thermf5 wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 4:17am:
Market? Basically where I'm coming from is if you make something that's reverse engineer. Or is inspired by another person's work should you not have the right in a free market to sell it wasn't the idea of the government enforcing patents and intellectual property inherently antifree market what do you guys have to say about this


It's a tricky issue for an actual libertarian..  Intellectual property is a natural right, but it is a right that is almost impossible to enforce without either government or a hired team willing to use physical force against people who violate your rights.  But "a hired team willing to use physical force against people who violate your rights" sounds a lot like a government only narrowly purposed and narrowly funded.

Making bootleg copies of a song or book or movie and undercutting the prices of the publisher who has the copyrights is a pretty clear case of theft of intellectual property.  The lines blur when you accuse someone of writing a song that sounds a lot like yours or using characters from your novel in an anauthorized sequel or prequel. 

My solution is to apply Snarky's razor:  When in doubt, choose the path that requires least government.  That would mean no government involvement in intellectual property rights.  You have a great song?  Produce it and sell it quick before a competitor starts reproducing it.  Use it as free content on a medium supported by advertising.  Use it to promote your concert tours.  Don't ask taxpayers to pony up for a futile attempt to stop people from pirating it.  Once you play it on the airwaves or publish it on the internet, there's no stopping people from doing what they want with it.

If people insist that there must be government protection of intellectual property, at least let the agencies be funded solely by voluntary fees from the property holders. 


  

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Jeff
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #2 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:52am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:03am:
My solution is to apply Snarky's razor:  When in doubt, choose the path that requires least government.  That would mean no government involvement in intellectual property rights.  You have a great song?  Produce it and sell it quick before a competitor starts reproducing it.
What if I spent ten years and hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a practical teleportation device, and before I can get anyone to start manufacturing them for me to sell, some Chinese crony company steals my creation and starts selling them cheap, so I get nothing?

The reason for granting temporary monopolies on new ideas is that it encourages people to create new things. Why would anyone labor to create a practical teleportation device if they knew some big corporations would be the only one's to profit from it?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #3 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:04am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:03am:
It's a tricky issue for an actual libertarian..  Intellectual property is a natural right, but it is a right that is almost impossible to enforce without either government or a hired team willing to use physical force against people who violate your rights.  But "a hired team willing to use physical force against people who violate your rights" sounds a lot like a government only narrowly purposed and narrowly funded.
Back to the idea of private police and private courts to protect property again?

I thought actual libertarians had agreed that there are serious problems with that idea...
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #4 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:08am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:04am:
Back to the idea of private police and private courts to protect property again?

I thought actual libertarians had agreed that there are serious problems with that idea...


I never proposed private police or private courts.  That's what we have now with hired security and arbitration.  i proposed that taxpayers not be robbed to fund the daydreams of "starving artists" who think they can be millionaires by writing and copyrighting the next Harry Potter or the next Fortnight.  You think you have a million dollar idea?  A thousand dollar copyright protection fee is only .1 percent of your future earnings, so you should have no problem paying it.  Leave me out of it.


  

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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #5 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:55am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I never proposed private police or private courts.  That's what we have now with hired security and arbitration. 
No, I can hire private security to police my property, but I cannot hire a private police force to police the community, or to arrest you when you are in your home, or to search your home for the lawnmower I saw you steal and push into your basement. Your private security would have instructions to prevent that.

People can mutually agree to submit to arbitration, but thieves won't agree to have their freedom limited by private arbitrators. They sometimes refuse to show up for court, why would they show up for arbitration? If they did, and the arbitrators decided the thief should pay restitution or give the stolen property back, who would enforce the ruling? The thief's private security won't let my private security retrieve my lawnmower, even though the arbitrators (that the thief won't agree to use anyway) said he should give it back.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #6 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:01am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 9:08am:
i proposed that taxpayers not be robbed to fund the daydreams of "starving artists" who think they can be millionaires by writing and copyrighting the next Harry Potter or the next Fortnight.  You think you have a million dollar idea?  A thousand dollar copyright protection fee is only .1 percent of your future earnings, so you should have no problem paying it.  Leave me out of it.


It costs $35 to file for a copyright, and we already have a system of courts created in part to hear and settle complaints of theft and fraud.

By, "leave you out of it" I take it to mean you don't want to pay anything to support the existing courts?

Without copyright/patent protection, my future earnings from my multi-million dollar idea could easily be zero.
  
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #7 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:18am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:01am:
It costs $35 to file for a copyright, and we already have a system of courts created in part to hear and settle complaints of theft and fraud.


It's only $35 because taxpayers pick up the tab for the rest of the costs.  That's welfare, same as when I pick up the costs for other people's Obamacare.

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By, "leave you out of it" I take it to mean you don't want to pay anything to support the existing courts?


Sure I do.  I just don't want to be forced to pay for it.

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Without copyright/patent protection, my future earnings from my multi-million dollar idea could easily be zero.


With copyright/patent protection, my future earnings from your multi-million dollar idea will definitely be zero.  So who should pay for your copyright protection, me or you?

Would you support a specific tax on profits generated by intellectual property to pay for the protection?


  

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thermf5
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #8 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 11:38am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 8:52am:
What if I spent ten years and hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a practical teleportation device, and before I can get anyone to start manufacturing them for me to sell, some Chinese crony company steals my creation and starts selling them cheap, so I get nothing?

The reason for granting temporary monopolies on new ideas is that it encourages people to create new things. Why would anyone labor to create a practical teleportation device if they knew some big corporations would be the only one's to profit from it?

Is your plans leads or somebody ripped you off that's your fault it's called individual responsibility you're responsible for your property and your ideas if somebody steals your ideas from you and then produces it at a cheaper rate that people buy then that's the market doing its work because if somebody's willing to buy a stolen knockoff property that's their choice it's all about giving the individual the most power and getting the government out of the way
  
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Re: Is the idea of intellectual property/patents inherently anti-free mark
Reply #9 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 5:35pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:18am:
It's only $35 because taxpayers pick up the tab for the rest of the costs.  That's welfare...

Supporting our courts through legal taxes is "welfare"?

Are you drunk? Or high?
  
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