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SkyChief
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #20 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:19pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 5:08pm:
Canada, as well as the UK, France, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and Switzerland have privatized their air traffic control.

Pick one and go learn all about it. They are also there to help pilots.

None of those places have close to the volume of commercial and civilian air traffic that the US has.  All of those countries combined represent a mere fraction of what the US ATC system must manage each day.

There are over 15,000 airports in the US, and  521 of these are "controlled" airports.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #21 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:07am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:19pm:
None of those places have close to the volume of commercial and civilian air traffic that the US has.  All of those countries combined represent a mere fraction of what the US ATC system must manage each day.

There are over 15,000 airports in the US, and  521 of these are "controlled" airports.
There are some very large and busy airports in the UK and France and Germany, and lots of flights in Europe which is a pretty compact place compared to America. They seem to be doing well with private ATC systems.

Not to slight Canada, lots of people fly in and out of Toronto and Montreal too.

A few simple rules take care of most of air traffic, much like "drive on the right side of the road" works for roads. Not only that, but modern airliners are equipped with very sophisticated radars and proximity warning systems. But yes, somebody has to take charge of them around Atlanta so they don't try to land on top of airplanes taking off.

The FAA has done a horrible job of providing good equipment to the Controllers and spent scads of money not getting them the best available equipment.

Airlines hate spending money on fuel for airplanes sitting in line to take off (and subsequently having their flight schedule for the day fouled up), or flying around in circles waiting to land. Passengers hate it too, and everybody hates crashes.

Let the industry with the most to gain figure out how to make it all work and spend their own money to do it.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #22 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:26am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Let the industry with the most to gain figure out how to make it all work and spend their own money to do it.

Most of the pilots I talk to have good things to say about the FAA, as they rely on their services just as I do. Sure, once in a while we get stuck waiting for inbound traffic, and we waste a lot of fuel - that's money out of our pockets.  But that occurs at any busy airport.   A privately-run ATC would be compelled to do exactly the same thing.
  
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #23 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:09pm
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:26am:
Most of the pilots I talk to have good things to say about the FAA, as they rely on their services just as I do. Sure, once in a while we get stuck waiting for inbound traffic, and we waste a lot of fuel - that's money out of our pockets.  But that occurs at any busy airport.   A privately-run ATC would be compelled to do exactly the same thing.
Yeah yeah, that's because you don't know any better.

It's the 21st Century Chief. Put in a good central computer at O'Hare and use it like FedEx or UPS or even the USPS uses theirs.

Modern airliners all have transponders that make them identifiable, like a FedEx bar code.

UPS could plan a days air traffic far better than the FAA does, and a good computer with the necessary input could keep the traffic flow almost instantly updated, so that you would know before you took off that if you got to O'Hare at 1030 hours, you could fly right down and land on your preassigned runway.

Your flight management computer would be automatically updated so that you could adjust your calculated arrival time.



You are really just trying to get me started about Eastern Airlines and Rolls-Royce and Lockheed aren't you?

I won't do it, other than to say that once the regulations changed and the owners of Eastern saw their airline was going to be subjected to competition for passengers, they picked up their marbles and went home. They liquidated everything of value, then declared bankruptcy and tossed away the dry husk.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #24 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
Modern airliners all have transponders that make them identifiable, like a FedEx bar code.

My 23 year-old Piper PA 28 has a transponder which sends exactly the same data as any commercial airliners.  Any (and all) aircraft which operates at controlled airports must be equipped with one.

You were unaware of this?

edit:

Some things need regulation (aviation).   Some things don't (social media).
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:40am by SkyChief »  
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The Opposition
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #25 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:11am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:21pm:
Some things need regulation (aviation). 


Why? Is it really okay to violate a core principle of libertarianism, just so more people will live?
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #26 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 2:41am
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The Opposition wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:11am:
Why? Is it really okay to violate a core principle of libertarianism, just so more people will live?

No core principles of libertarianism are broken.

Self ownership, limited government and free market are still intact with the FAA.

The FAA has served aviation wery well since 1958. 

The US has the busiest airspace on the planet.  Millions of people count on them to manage it.  Which they do. Because they have the funding.

If private sector took over, they would cut corners to maximise profits, and accidents/disasters would be more commonplace. Lives would be lost.

"If it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it."

Same with facebook.  It ain't broke.   It's run by moonbats. They sell personal info to 3rd-party interests. So what.   If anyone is uncomfortable with that, they should log out & use another social media platform.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #27 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:22am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 11:21pm:
My 23 year-old Piper PA 28 has a transponder which sends exactly the same data as any commercial airliners.  Any (and all) aircraft which operates at controlled airports must be equipped with one.

You were unaware of this?

edit:

Some things need regulation (aviation).   Some things don't (social media).
It's beside the point.

Simply declaring repeatedly that aviation must be regulated doesn't make it true.
  
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #28 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:42am
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SkyChief wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 2:41am:
No core principles of libertarianism are broken.

Self ownership, limited government and free market are still intact with the FAA.

The FAA has served aviation wery well since 1958. 

FAA regulations are what crippled the business of building general aviation aircraft so that manufacturers kept building the same airframes and equipping them with the same engines for 50 years or more, and what gave the original successful commercial aircraft manufacturers (Why is Boeing subsidized instead of being broken up as a monopoly?) a lock on the market and led them to keep building the same airframes for decades. (I do mean the same- the first DC-9s were FAA Certified with some real structural problems in the area of the aft pressure vessel and the engine pylons. Modifications to the structure in that area were required to be accomplished on every DC-9 ever built, and the MD-80 airframes also, because a re-design of the structure in that one area would, by FAA Regulations, require re-certification of the entire airframe, which is horribly expensive. But because it was otherwise an excellent airframe, lots of airlines bought them, flew them until they were due for their first major overhaul, then installed the factory purchased modification kits and fixed the problem. That was pretty costly too.  The 727 airframe was FAA Certified with structural problems waiting to happen forward of the forward entry door, and the last 727 ever built was built with the same defect for the same reason.) 

Luckily, car manufacturers were not saddled with the equivalent of FAA Certification until the NHTSA was created in 1970, and NHTSA regulations aren't as strict as the FAAs, although they have added a lot to the cost of a car.
  
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Re: Three EDIT: Four Reasons Congress Won't Change Facebook
Reply #29 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:25am
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Jeff wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:22am:
Simply declaring repeatedly that aviation must be regulated doesn't make it true.

And simply declaring that a tiny country line New Zealand or Switzerland can get by with private-sector aviation doesn't mean the US could do it, too. 

Jeff wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:42am:
...Luckily, car manufacturers were not saddled with the equivalent of FAA Certification until the NHTSA was created in 1970, and NHTSA regulations aren't as strict as the FAAs, although they have added a lot to the cost of a car.

Agreed. I cant think of a single car manufacturer that builds a car which is worthy of an FAA certification. That would really be a problem..

But there are regulatory agencies which oversee automobile design and manufacture:  NHTSA, Dept of Transportation, etc.
  
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