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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What is the American Gun Mentality all About? (Read 2354 times)
Don_G
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #120 - May 6th, 2018 at 11:52pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 6th, 2018 at 9:14pm:
I keep asking you about this standard you have that freedom can be stripped in the service of saving lives.


I keep telling you that the freedom and  rights of the majority are more important than the rights of a few gungoons.

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I keep asking you if this is true every time, or just for guns. I keep asking you if someone could prove some other freedom was just as dangerous, and cost just as many lives, if you would want to take that freedom as well, so lives would be saved, and all I get is crickets.


You always get an answer and a simple one that will serve for this time is that you have to curtail the rights of people to drive a care on public streets without a license. That's because the safety of the majority is more important than that perceived right.

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You never provide a clear answer, which indicates to me that you aren't interested in saving lives; you're just interested in hurting people who want guns.


Work on that one with your big brain for a while. If you don't like it then ask me again.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #121 - May 7th, 2018 at 3:02am
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You always get an answer and a simple one that will serve for this time is that you have to curtail the rights of people to drive a care on public streets without a license. That's because the safety of the majority is more important than that perceived right.

Operating a motor vehicle on public roads is not a right.

Owning a gun IS.

If the state takes away someone's privelege to drive a car on public roads (for safety concerns), no rights have been violated.

If the State takes away someones firearms (for safety concerns), rights are violated.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #122 - May 7th, 2018 at 4:29am
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Quote:
You always get an answer and a simple one that will serve for this time is that you have to curtail the rights of people to drive a care on public streets without a license. That's because the safety of the majority is more important than that perceived right.


I don't want one that will serve for this time. I want an answer that's based on how the Hell you got to the idea that you have the right to take peoples' guns away.

Is this a general principle? May freedom be sacrificed for safety in other instances of equal or greater risk, or is this just guns?

If it's just guns then you're only interested in hurting people who want guns. You don't actually care about safety: You're pretending to so you can get peoples' guns away.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #123 - May 7th, 2018 at 9:33am
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SkyChief wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 3:02am:
Operating a motor vehicle on public roads is not a right.

Says who?

Operating a motor vehicle on private roads is not a right... but why do you say it would be a privilege to drive on public roads?

Let's see, the King owns the Kings Highways, so you must petition the King and get His permission to use the King's roads?
  
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Jeff
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #124 - May 7th, 2018 at 9:37am
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SkyChief wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 3:02am:
If the state takes away someone's privelege to drive a car on public roads (for safety concerns), no rights have been violated.

If the State takes away someones firearms (for safety concerns), rights are violated.
You have it wrong on both counts Chief.

The right to use public roads may be restricted or denied for reasons of safety. A couple of reckless driving convictions and you can legitimately be denied the right to use public roads.

The same for guns. Use a gun in the commission of a felony, and your right to have guns can be legitimately denied. After you have been convicted of course.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #125 - May 7th, 2018 at 12:42pm
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Jeff wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 9:33am:
Says who?

Operating a motor vehicle on private roads is not a right... but why do you say it would be a privilege to drive on public roads?

Let's see, the King owns the Kings Highways, so you must petition the King and get His permission to use the King's roads?

I should have said Constitutional Right.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #126 - May 7th, 2018 at 1:28pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 3:02am:
Operating a motor vehicle on public roads is not a right.


Gotcha!

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If the state takes away someone's privelege to drive a car on public roads (for safety concerns), no rights have been violated.


Gotcha again! Regulations!

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If the State takes away someones firearms (for safety concerns), rights are violated.


Yes, that's the issue that's being debated.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #127 - May 8th, 2018 at 1:43am
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Yes, that's the issue that's being debated.


And you won't debate. You make declarations. That's all you do.

You declare that lives outweigh freedom this time, but you won't say whether an equal amount of lives outweigh freedom at other times.

You're not arguing from a principle. You just don't like guns. There's nothing behind your statement that lives outweigh freedom, not even evidence that you yourself believe it!
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #128 - May 8th, 2018 at 7:39am
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SkyChief wrote on May 7th, 2018 at 12:42pm:
I should have said Constitutional Right.
That's why the anti-federalists were correct about it being a mistake to include a Bill of Rights...  you don't even have a Constitutional Right to own a car Chief!

Edit: Some recommended books-

http://reason.com/volokh/2018/05/07/books-on-the-constitution-for-libertaria?utm...
  
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AlayneLeung
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Re: What is the American Gun Mentality all About?
Reply #129 - May 11th, 2018 at 1:07pm
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Don_G, there are at least four valid Constitutional reasons why people own guns in the United States to:

1, save good generations of people's lives by deterring government from becoming evil like previous corruptions of Adolf H., Joseph Stalin, Mao, Napoleon, Nero, the Inquisition, Jefferson Davis, etc.;
2, defend against violent criminals to save good people's lives;
3, save lives from being eaten by sharks or alligators or crocodiles or other very dangerous animals;
and 4, provide restraint against developing the use of very dangerous violent global psychokinetic attacks such as those that were fictionally done by Cell, Freeza, and temporarily unenlightened Majin Buu before Pure Evil Majin Buu consumed later enlightened Majin Buu; so that billions of lives can be saved.
  
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