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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Fundamental Tyranny (Read 713 times)
Don_G
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #30 - May 11th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 7:58am:
Were they working hard to make you happy so you'd give them big tips, or maybe just pretending to be happy so you'd leave them big tips? Or maybe they were just happy to have a job.


My wife and I were sailing down the coast of Mexico and I'm talking about going into small seaports on the Mexican coast. There were no tourists except a few people on boats once in a while. The only interaction with the people was nothing more than just social.

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Did you get out and about away from the touristy special areas, out where people are really poor?


The people weren't really poor, as you would find in Mexico city or other places in Mexico. I'll tell you more if you show a genuine interest.

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https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/mexico/annual-household-income-per-capita

From the data, almost everybody in Mexico should be really happy.


Not interested in that kind of bullshit from you on this thread.

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It's not a joke.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #31 - May 11th, 2018 at 4:09pm
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My wife and I were sailing down the coast of Mexico and I'm talking about going into small seaports on the Mexican coast. There were no tourists except a few people on boats once in a while. The only interaction with the people was nothing more than just social.

How could you afford all that?

No matter, it sounds like you were afraid to get off your boat. Did you go far enough to run out of food and water?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #32 - May 11th, 2018 at 11:44pm
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BobK71 wrote on May 10th, 2018 at 8:31pm:
When almost every human mistake is bailed out by a systemic wealth effect, the sea of barely mature people are not going to speed up their personal development.  If the wealth is always floating around, ready to be grabbed by the best practitioners of the 'kiss up, kick down' philosophy, what kind of people do you think will rise to the top and shape the rest of society?  What kind of 'relationships' can these people forge with each other?


This is another way in which Society itself is necessarily a parasite on itself.

Another way I say this to myself is that every business is monkey business.

No one starves or even fails to reproduce because of failure, so the only factor that leads to success in society is the ability to win at the games of society...

...The ability to be top monkey.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #33 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:50am
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The Opposition wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 11:44pm:
This is another way in which Society itself is necessarily a parasite on itself.

Government is a parasite on society, but it can be useful.

I don't have any idea what you mean when you say "Society is necessarily a parasite on itself".

Have you tried that as a scientific experiment?

Why don't you.

See how long you can live by drinking your own blood and neither eating or drinking anything else. Kiss
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #34 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:53am
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The Opposition wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 11:44pm:
No one starves or even fails to reproduce because of failure, so the only factor that leads to success in society is the ability to win at the games of society...

...The ability to be top monkey.
Once again, you confuse society with government.

If you produce a useful or desirable product or offer a useful or desirable service you can do well, but as long as there is free competition, you can't become "top monkey".

Only authoritarian governments have "top monkeys". Venezuela comes to mind, and N.Korea...
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #35 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:03am
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I think that all the benefits those socalled, happiest countries can't be discounted, even though factors aren't the only measure of humn being's happiness. But by the same token, take them away and happiness is going to be pretty hard to achieve.


We in the modern age are used to thinking flushing toilets and plentiful food are a necessity to happiness.  But humans evolved over the eons without having those, and thus our brains and bodies are probably wired to work around the lack of them.  On the other hand, financial inflation has only been around for a few hundred years, and so our brains probably aren't able to deal with the erosion of communal life as a result.  I'd say don't fight your genes.

I'm not saying the more poverty, the better.  I'm saying a true free market allows every person and every country to live materially at a level that is compatible with their maturity.  So wealth is not an evil, but bubble-based wealth is.  (Likewise, social consciousness is not an evil, but the artificial kind, driven from the top for the elites' own reasons, is.)

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If you're referring to all the benefits that come with socially responslbie government then I can't agree. I'll use the example of government funded universal healthcare and interpret that as what you mean by 'people being bailed out by a systemic wealth effect'. ( I think you mean that as an example)


Unfortunately, the right to medical care is a 'positive' right, so that's a problem right there.

We all get old and sick, and we all know it.  The proper solution for the vast majority of people is for each person to save for his future care (whether by saving money or buying truly free-market insurance,) and to afford the precise level of care he receives by paying for it personally, one way or another.

The hybrid public-private system many Western countries have today rewards those who are not disciplined enough to save for their future care, and the totally public system other countries have reduced incentives to be productive inside the health care system.
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #36 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:10am
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The Opposition wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 11:44pm:
This is another way in which Society itself is necessarily a parasite on itself.

Another way I say this to myself is that every business is monkey business.

No one starves or even fails to reproduce because of failure, so the only factor that leads to success in society is the ability to win at the games of society...

...The ability to be top monkey.


But that is neither true winning nor true happiness.

As I wrote elsewhere, I harbor slightly more optimism for humanity than you seem to.  We're not built to sustain a nation, I'd agree, but we're built to sustain a village, and be happy doing it.

The tricky thing, of course, is how to defend a village against would-be builders of an empire.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #37 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:21am
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BobK71 wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:03am:
The hybrid public-private system many Western countries have today rewards those who are not disciplined enough to save for their future care, and the totally public system other countries have reduced incentives to be productive inside the health care system.
And then there's the ACA-

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamacare-still-us-getting-worse?ut...
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #38 - May 19th, 2018 at 1:57am
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BobK71 wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:10am:
But that is neither true winning nor true happiness.

As I wrote elsewhere, I harbor slightly more optimism for humanity than you seem to.  We're not built to sustain a nation, I'd agree, but we're built to sustain a village, and be happy doing it.

The tricky thing, of course, is how to defend a village against would-be builders of an empire.


Call on other villages to help, I suppose.

I do agree with you about the size of a population, though, and I've posted so before you even joined the forum.

Dissident once lauded me for my quote:
It takes a village to raise a child, but it takes a city to raise a criminal.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Don_G
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Re: The Fundamental Tyranny
Reply #39 - May 19th, 2018 at 7:41pm
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BobK71 wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:03am:
The hybrid public-private system many Western countries have today rewards those who are not disciplined enough to save for their future care, and the totally public system other countries have reduced incentives to be productive inside the health care system.


The totally public health care system works the best of all health care systems, and there are good reasons for that.

Insurance against health problems is necessary because we are responsible for taking care of all the people in the best way we possibly can. Granted, some people don't look after themselves as much as they should but that's not the major concern. People fall ill or are injured, while others escape those problems. Canada provides health care off the backs of all the people, regardless of whether they are the lucky ones or not. It's a civilized and responsible way to go.

And fwiw, health care is provided to all Canadians at roughly half the cost per capita as the US system. And also fwiw, ours is rated better.

What is your arguing point Bob? Maybe it's time to cut through all the bullshit and get to the point?

I support social responsibility for all our people. The US will sooner or later have to do the same. The people want it but the most wealthy quintlies don't want to face their social responsibiity. Unfortunately, too many ordinary people have been snookered into supporting the wealthy.

They actually believe that asking for their fair share is equivalent to 'stealing other people's money. And a lot of effort and money has gone into promoting that kind of bullshit fantasy.
  
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