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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship? (Read 568 times)
Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #10 - May 1st, 2018 at 12:34pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 12:27pm:
Right.  I proposed selling Guest Visas to immigrants wishing to come to the US.  These would be good for 12 months.  They can be renewed infinite times, but at a progressie rate.

Initial (1st) Guest Visa:  $500

2nd year (renewal):       $1000

3rd year (renewal)         $2000

4th year (renewal)         $4000

5th year (renewal)         $8000

etc, etc....

This way, all immigrants are welcome, and they don't need to buy citizenship.  The just keep renewing their Guest Visa.  (although it gets kinda expensive after 8 years.)

The revenues gained from the sale of Guest Visas could fund all Border Security infrastructure, and taxpayers would be relieved of the need to fund it with taxes. 

Applied Libertarianism...  Everyone wins!


Applied libertarianism? How sad that you want to continue to tread water with your utopian nonsense. It's not going to happen Chief. Never! Period!

I've told you dozens of times how you can get back your piece of the pie.

Lose your hero worship of the ruling 1%. They've responsible for your dismal situation.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #11 - May 1st, 2018 at 12:44pm
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Applied libertarianism? How sad that you want to continue to tread water with your utopian nonsense.

My proposal for Guest Visas is not "utopian nonsense".  It's a libertarian solution to the immigration crisis in the US.  It benefits the immigrants, and it benefits the taxpayers by easing their burden.  It benefits the government because they would have the necessary funding to support (a) sensible immigration policy.

You loathe libertarians because we have excellent solutions to simple problems that democrats and republicans seem to struggle with.

Quote:
I've told you dozens of times how you can get back your piece of the pie.

Lose your hero worship of the ruling 1%. They've responsible for your dismal situation.

You must be confusing me with burns or someone else.  I don't worship anyone or anything.

I only stated that the rich should be able to keep their wealth.  As should the poor and the working class.

Walter Williams says it much better than me:

"Let me offer you my definition of social justice: I keep what I earn, and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you - and why?"

  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2018 at 1:03pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 12:44pm:
My proposal for Guest Visas is not "utopian nonsense".  It's a libertarian solution to the immigration crisis in the US.  It benefits the immigrants, and it benefits the taxpayers by easing their burden.  It benefits the government because they would have the necessary funding to support (a) sensible immigration policy.

You loathe libertarians because we have excellent solutions to simple problems that democrats and republicans seem to struggle with.


I loathe that which is your imagination and which will never become reality??

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You must be confusing me with burns or someone else.  I don't worship anyone or anything.


Burnsred truly does worship the rightist policies of government. I don't suggest that you worship anything but you do support the status quo by not offering an alternative.

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I only stated that the rich should be able to keep their wealth.  As should the poor and the working class.


There's where you have gone wrong. The rich have stolen your wealth and that's driven you to the hopelessness of libertarianism. The poor and the working class have scant wealth left to be stolen.

Income inequality and the outrageous wealth of the 1% are facts you can't argue against. You need to start thinking of how to stop it and reverse the trend. That money you pretend is 'other people's money is really that which used to be the American people's money.

Quote:
Walter Williams says it much better than me:

"Let me offer you my definition of social justice: I keep what I earn, and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you - and why?"


I'll assume you're among the ranks of the 1% Walter. You're wallowing in wealth that is so far out of proportion that it's destroyed the living conditions and way of life for the remaining 99%. You've driven some of the people to the hopelessness of libertarianism. And you can continue to hoodwink the people as long as they tread water in that kind of hopelessness.

If the people ever turn to a solution that will give them back a piece of the American pie, then you're in trouble Walter. Bernie Sanders hinted at that and Trump promised it to his people. You're lucky Walter, that Trump was nothing but lies.






  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #13 - May 1st, 2018 at 1:21pm
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There's where you have gone wrong. The rich have stolen your wealth and that's driven you to the hopelessness of libertarianism. The poor and the working class have scant wealth left to be stolen.

No rich man ever stole my wealth - directly or indirectly.  The government steals my wealth by taking 30% of my income/earnings.


Quote:
Income inequality and the outrageous wealth of the 1% are facts you can't argue against. You need to start thinking of how to stop it and reverse the trend.

I don't argue that Income inequality exists.  As a libertarian, it's not a concern of mine.  An individual's income is directly proportional their production and value to society (contribution to GDP).

A doctor will always be richer than the stockboy at the local supermarket.

Non productive people have little or no income,  Highly productive people are (usually) wealthy.  That stands to reason.  Why should I want to "stop it and reverse the trend"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #14 - May 1st, 2018 at 3:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 1:21pm:
I don't argue that Income inequality exists.
It's well proven in the literature that lazy people in general do less well than ambitious people in general. If you are hardworking and ambitious and things still crappity smacked up for you, blame fate or "progressive" government, or both, or perhaps your own bad judgement...

If you managed to get really rich while being lazy, you are probably a politician from a rich dynasty of politicians, or a crony. Or maybe you have Royal Blood or are a criminal warlord somewhere...
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #15 - May 1st, 2018 at 3:39pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 1:21pm:
No rich man ever stole my wealth - directly or indirectly.  The government steals my wealth by taking 30% of my income/earnings.


Yes, it's government's fault. Your government enables the very wealthy and thus is to blame for the income inequality. You're right in wanting to change government. You just don't have an effective idea of a way to do it.


Quote:
I don't argue that Income inequality exists.  As a libertarian, it's not a concern of mine. 


It will be in the future but that's a minor point not worth my time right now.

Quote:
An individual's income is directly proportional their production and value to society (contribution to GDP).


There's where you go so wrong! The income of the wealthy in your country is much farther out of proportion to their contribution. That's where the whole thing is so unfair and the reason why your system causes libertarians. If the wealthy person's income was 10 times as much as the doctor or lawyer's then you would be right. You're wrong because of the 'real' income inequality that exists.

So let's say the doctor or the lawyer earns 200K or 300K which they deserve. If the very wealthy were earning 10 times that amount, 2M or 3M then that would be closer to fair. Instead they earn a hundred times that or even more. 200M or 300 M!

You see, you need to lie in order to justify the 1% their wealth. Or even the 10% their wealth. Other countries keep a handle on that problem and hence their people are much happier.

Quote:
A doctor will always be richer than the stockboy at the local supermarket.

Non productive people have little or no income,  Highly productive people are (usually) wealthy.  That stands to reason.  Why should I want to "stop it and reverse the trend"?


The doctor earns his money by hard work and he's an instance of a person who should earn 10 times or even a hundred times more than the stock boy. The stock boy makes 10K a year and the doctor should make a million a year. that's 100 times as much.

You lied about income inequality and as long as you stand behind those lies you won't ever 'get it'.

Take your time!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #16 - May 1st, 2018 at 3:43pm
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Yes, it's government's fault.
Take time to digest and understand that thought. I'd recommend you stay quiet and explore within your own mind while you do that.

Perhaps you can escape the self imposed chains of your ideology. Smiley
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #17 - May 1st, 2018 at 3:44pm
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I'll assume you're among the ranks of the 1% Walter.
I am far more fortunate than that, I am unique!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #18 - May 1st, 2018 at 4:47pm
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Yes, it's government's fault. Your government enables the very wealthy and thus is to blame for the income inequality. You're right in wanting to change government. You just don't have an effective idea of a way to do it.

Gee, I thought I offered a very effective way to limit government - CUT THE FUNDING. 

They'd have no choice but to downsize and eliminate non-essential spending.

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You see, you need to lie in order to justify the 1% their wealth. Or even the 10% their wealth. Other countries keep a handle on that problem and hence their people are much happier.

Libertarians don't look to other countries for libertarian solutions.  For obvious reasons.  There will always be rich people and there will always be poor people.  We need to encourage the poor to pick themselves by the bootstraps and not rely on Big Government to distribute wealth.

It's not the function of government to distribute wealth from the 1%ers to rest of the people.  That's why libertarians object to Income Taxes.

Anyways, none of this has anything to do with selling citizenship.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #19 - May 1st, 2018 at 6:18pm
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Jeff wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 3:39pm:
It's well proven in the literature that lazy people in general do less well than ambitious people in general. If you are hardworking and ambitious and things still crappity smacked up for you, blame fate or "progressive" government, or both, or perhaps your own bad judgement...

If you managed to get really rich while being lazy, you are probably a politician from a rich dynasty of politicians, or a crony. Or maybe you have Royal Blood or are a criminal warlord somewhere...


You always come out with something useful when you're talking to others. Your resentment of me prevents you from doing that when addressing me.

This is of little value to the conversation but still it's of some value. You again point out the political corruption. It's all very well established Mr. Sickler.

The libertarian will always find a need to spill his guts on his woes!
  
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