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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship? (Read 631 times)
Jeff
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #20 - May 1st, 2018 at 8:22pm
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Your resentment of me...
You have an unrealistic inflated sense of yourself to imagine that people resent you.

It's probably another symptom of one of your mental disorders.

Red could tell you for sure.


  
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genepool
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #21 - May 1st, 2018 at 11:11pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 12:27pm:
Right.  I proposed selling Guest Visas to immigrants wishing to come to the US.  These would be good for 12 months.  They can be renewed infinite times, but at a progressive rate.

Initial (1st) Guest Visa:  $500

2nd year (renewal):       $1000

3rd year (renewal)         $2000

4th year (renewal)         $4000

5th year (renewal)         $8000

etc, etc....

This way, all immigrants are welcome, and they don't need to buy citizenship.  The just keep renewing their Guest Visa.  (although it gets kinda expensive after 8 years.)

The revenues gained from the sale of Guest Visas could fund all Border Security infrastructure, and taxpayers would be relieved of the need to fund it with taxes. 

Applied Libertarianism...  Everyone wins!


This is actually a good idea. I don't see why it should be  progressive, but it's up to the state really.

Another idea that works is Dubai.

However, Dubai does this on a very extreme scale.

90% of the population in Dubai is immigrant. However, a few "citizen" there get tons of money from citizen dividend.

Western civilization, like US, have a habit of turning their immigrants into citizen.

This has plus and minus. The issue is US is a much bigger land than Dubai. So, saying that a bunch of people claiming that the land is theirs and then not allowing people to come is a bit unfair.

However, many of those people that got US citizenship contributes very little to the state.

Some are welfare parasites that just breed and breed. Some Chinese go to US, give birth there so their daughter can get US citizenship. I am sure most of those chinese will be better off if US just charge money.

As I said. Many benefits of selling citizenship can be obtained by simply selling temporary residence visa. However, there are additional benefits of selling citizenship that you cannot obtain by just selling residency.

Existence of market base citizenship market would allow citizens and anyone, to observe whether the state itself is run properly.

This is something that is important in election, for example, when selecting candidate.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #22 - May 2nd, 2018 at 12:39pm
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genepool wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 11:11pm:
This is actually a good idea. I don't see why it should be  progressive, but it's up to the state really.


My proposal applies on a Federal level, not a State level.

Reasoning: If Florida sells Guest Visas for $500, and California sells Guest Visas for $100, nobody would enter the US through Florida.  The California Border Guard would be overwhelmed with Guest Visa applications, and immigrants would be forced to wait weeks (or months!) for their Guest Visa authorization.

Guest Visas throughout the the US must be uniform.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #23 - May 2nd, 2018 at 1:08pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 12:39pm:
My proposal applies on a Federal level, not a State level.

Reasoning: If Florida sells Guest Visas for $500, and California sells Guest Visas for $100, nobody would enter the US through Florida.  The California Border Guard would be overwhelmed with Guest Visa applications, and immigrants would be forced to wait weeks (or months!) for their Guest Visa authorization.

Guest Visas throughout the the US must be uniform.


Libertarians should never allow themselves to be trapped into talking in specific terms. They will always have to compromise when they do.

I'm still waiting for some 'regulation (s) that libertarians want to eliminate so that we can get into a discussion on the validity of eliminating some said regulation.

It's nothing but a wild claim by libertarians because of their anti-establishment attitude. But that attitude can never be held up to the light of day.

This is a great example of the Chief compromising libertarian principle. For obviously good reason according to him!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #24 - May 2nd, 2018 at 1:56pm
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Libertarians should never allow themselves to be trapped into talking in specific terms. They will always have to compromise when they do.

When applying libertarian princples in the real world,  adjustments will be made.  Logic, Common Sense and critical thinking play a big part in deciding how to apply (real-world) llibertarian policy.

My Income Tax Elimination plan is excellent because it allows for adjustments to be made, i.e., if the (combined) revenues exceed what is actually needed, then each Tax (or some taxes) could be lowered to fine-tune it. This way, taxpayers never have to pay more that what is necessary.

My Guest Visa residency plan is adjustable, too. If it becomes apparent that too much revenues are coming in from Guest Visa renewals,  a simple stroke of a pen can lower the premuims on renewals.  And wouldn't the Guest Visa holders welcome that!!

My Voter Proficiency Exam is adjustable as well.  If too many voters are unable to correctly answer the questions on the ballots, simpler questions can be presented.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #25 - May 2nd, 2018 at 3:35pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 1:56pm:
When applying libertarian princples in the real world,  adjustments will be made.  Logic, Common Sense and critical thinking play a big part in deciding how to apply (real-world) llibertarian policy.

My Income Tax Elimination plan is excellent because it allows for adjustments to be made, i.e., if the (combined) revenues exceed what is actually needed, then each Tax (or some taxes) could be lowered to fine-tune it. This way, taxpayers never have to pay more that what is necessary.

My Guest Visa residency plan is adjustable, too. If it becomes apparent that too much revenues are coming in from Guest Visa renewals,  a simple stroke of a pen can lower the premuims on renewals.  And wouldn't the Guest Visa holders welcome that!!

My Voter Proficiency Exam is adjustable as well.  If too many voters are unable to correctly answer the questions on the ballots, simpler questions can be presented.


Your compromises are turning you into a liberal in some instances and a greedy conservative in others. No libertarian would discriminate against people coming in across the (hopefully) non-existent border. You've re-erected those borders. It's a part of your growing up. You've got a long way to go.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #26 - May 2nd, 2018 at 4:16pm
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No libertarian would discriminate against people coming in across the (hopefully) non-existent border. You've re-erected those borders. It's a part of your growing up. You've got a long way to go.

You obvoiusly have misunderstood my Guest Visa plan. 

The Guest Visa plan makes it easier for immigrants to come to the US, not harder.  They won't need to get mired in bureaucratic BS, they just pony up $500, wait a day or two for a cursory Homeland Security backgroung check, and they're IN!  They are now a legal resident (for 12 months)  Smiley

I'm breaking down the borders.  Real Immigration reform that helps everyone.

It's about time, don't you think?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #27 - May 2nd, 2018 at 5:18pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 4:16pm:
You obvoiusly have misunderstood my Guest Visa plan. 

The Guest Visa plan makes it easier for immigrants to come to the US, not harder.  They won't need to get mired in bureaucratic BS, they just pony up $500, wait a day or two for a cursory Homeland Security backgroung check, and they're IN!  They are now a legal resident (for 12 months)  Smiley

I'm breaking down the borders.  Real Immigration reform that helps everyone.

It's about time, don't you think?
I like it pretty well, but would like to have applicants have a prearranged job, someone promising to put them to work when they show up. That should be pretty easy in the 21st Century...
  
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Don_G
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #28 - May 2nd, 2018 at 7:13pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 4:16pm:
You obvoiusly have misunderstood my Guest Visa plan. 

The Guest Visa plan makes it easier for immigrants to come to the US, not harder.  They won't need to get mired in bureaucratic BS, they just pony up $500, wait a day or two for a cursory Homeland Security backgroung check, and they're IN!  They are now a legal resident (for 12 months)  Smiley

I'm breaking down the borders.  Real Immigration reform that helps everyone.

It's about time, don't you think?

I like it even though it's all in your imagination. Are you really taking yourself seriously on any of the libertarian reforms you're dreaming up?

By all means keep at it, it's entertaining and proof that libertarianism is a fantasy that will never by anything more than that.

Take this to the bank Chief: If the break from the two major parties is accomplished in the next two years or six years, it won't be to the LP.

The only change in the US's future politics is going to be a move to finally accept the left!

That will have very little to do with Democrats and their party.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Should citizens be allowed to sell their citizenship?
Reply #29 - May 2nd, 2018 at 7:23pm
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Take this to the bank Chief: If the break from the two major parties is accomplished in the next two years or six years, it won't be to the LP.

Take this to the bank, Don_G:

When the Two Party system eventually collapses, the only political party left standing among all the debris and rubble will be the Libertarain Party.  We've been around since 1971 and we'll patiently wait for the Dems and Repubs to annihilate each other.

tick...tock...tick...tock...tick...tock...

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The only change in the US's future politics is going to be a move to finally accept the left!

It won't be a move to the left OR the right. 

It will be a move towards FREEDOM!   Folks are tired of all the left/right nonsense.  We want our lives back. We want to keep what is ours and not be forced to hand it over to the government for re-distribution.

[cue the Battle Hymn Of The Republic]
  
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