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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What Do Unions Stand For? (Read 193 times)
Don_G
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What Do Unions Stand For?
May 1st, 2018 at 1:09pm
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It's obvious that they stand for helping the ordinary people regain some of the wealth that has been stolen from them.

Could the basic principle ever be brought back without the corruption that seeped in to destroy the people's power?

That would represent another huge threat to the 1% who have stolen the decent standard of living that was once belonging to the American people.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #1 - May 1st, 2018 at 10:58pm
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Usable
Nomenclature
In
Obfuscating
Nothing
Special
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #2 - May 2nd, 2018 at 8:32am
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It's obvious that they stand for helping the ordinary people regain some of the wealth that has been stolen from them.

Right, most modern union "leaders" are Marxists.

Most modern union members in America (the one's not forced to join anyway) are merely looking out for themselves, using the government granted power of their union to extort higher pay, better benefits and immunity from being fired for incompetence or laziness.

And since the great majority of current unions in America are unions of government employees, it's the taxpayers that get stuck with the bills and suffer the consequences of laziness and incompetence.


Did you see that link I posted this morning about how few children in America are actually being educated by unionized teachers?
  
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Don_G
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #3 - May 2nd, 2018 at 12:37pm
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Jeff wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 8:32am:
Right, most modern union "leaders" are Marxists.

Most modern union members in America (the one's not forced to join anyway) are merely looking out for themselves, using the government granted power of their union to extort higher pay, better benefits and immunity from being fired for incompetence or laziness.

And since the great majority of current unions in America are unions of government employees, it's the taxpayers that get stuck with the bills and suffer the consequences of laziness and incompetence.


Did you see that link I posted this morning about how few children in America are actually being educated by unionized teachers?


This was meant to bring you out Craig Sickler because you have such a hard-on for unions.

People who dislike unions are union workers' counterparts in nonunionized jobs making less money.

Is there any other reason why people like you despise unionized workers?
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #4 - May 2nd, 2018 at 5:11pm
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This was meant to bring you out Craig Sickler because you have such a hard-on for unions.


No. Once again, you deliberately misconstrue my position.

I oppose any voluntary private organization being given any special privileges by government.

I would object just as strongly if the Baptist Church was given monopoly power over everyone in my town, so that, just like unions currently, you would have to tithe to the Baptist Church in order to be allowed to live in the town, whether you joined the Church or not.

Tell me why you think crap like that is a good idea?

I like the Baptist Church better than I like the IAMAW or the NEA.

I don't despise union workers. Many are long time friends of mine.

I despise the government granting monopoly power over my union worker friends to organizations like the IAMAW.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #5 - May 2nd, 2018 at 6:45pm
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Jeff wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 5:11pm:
No. Once again, you deliberately misconstrue my position.

I oppose any voluntary private organization being given any special privileges by government.

I would object just as strongly if the Baptist Church was given monopoly power over everyone in my town, so that, just like unions currently, you would have to tithe to the Baptist Church in order to be allowed to live in the town, whether you joined the Church or not.

Tell me why you think crap like that is a good idea?

I like the Baptist Church better than I like the IAMAW or the NEA.

I don't despise union workers. Many are long time friends of mine.

I despise the government granting monopoly power over my union worker friends to organizations like the IAMAW.


It's all about your hard-on for unions Craig.

There's not a libertarian alive who would turn down a union job that pays $40 an hour and take a non-union job that pays $20.

In fact, opposing unions is completely against libertarian principles anyway. It's opposing a worker's rights. 

Quote:
I would object just as strongly if the Baptist Church was given monopoly power over everyone in my town, so that, just like unions currently, you would have to tithe to the Baptist Church in order to be allowed to live in the town, whether you joined the Church or not.


Whether you joined the union or not?  Embarrassed
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #6 - May 3rd, 2018 at 7:35am
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In fact, opposing unions is completely against libertarian principles anyway. It's opposing a worker's rights. 
Libertarians don't oppose voluntary private organizations, they just oppose having government giving special privileges to private organizations.

"Workers" have the same rights as anyone else, no more and no less.
  
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Don_G
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #7 - May 3rd, 2018 at 1:31pm
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Jeff wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 7:35am:
Libertarians don't oppose voluntary private organizations, they just oppose having government giving special privileges to private organizations.

"Workers" have the same rights as anyone else, no more and no less.


Workers have a right to belong to the union of their choice and that union shall be granted equal powers as the employer.

That means:

The employer has the right to not provide work.
The employee has the right to withdraw his services.

The libertarian is stuck with having to accept those terms.
  
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Jeff
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #8 - May 3rd, 2018 at 3:12pm
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Workers have a right to belong to the union of their choice and that union shall be granted equal powers as the employer.
On what basis?

Unless unions exist that have been granted powers by government, employees can quit, and employers can fire them.

Why should it be otherwise? Those are equal powers.

Were you to grant crony employers a government backed power to prevent an employee from quitting, the employers would have a granted privilege giving them more power, just like unions have now.

You like unions having government granted privileges to take money from "represented" people...

Why not a government granted privilege for employers to take money from employees for political purposes?

Granted, employees pay either way, but why do you imagine that a union's political aims are better than an employers?

Edit: I have my own political aims, and want to use my money to support them, thanks.
  
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Re: What Do Unions Stand For?
Reply #9 - May 3rd, 2018 at 3:30pm
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Dont hey interfere with free people to employ and be employed? Not libertarian would approve.
  

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