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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences (Read 369 times)
SnarkySack
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #10 - May 2nd, 2018 at 10:05am
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Billie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 8:42am:
You can use the idea for your dissertation if you want to do the studies.


Thanks, but I don't want to start over now that I've done all the grunt work for my current scientific study.  Once I have my doctorate in the fall, I can think about that study.



  

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SnarkySack
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #11 - May 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am
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Billie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 8:46am:
I think that's already well described in the literature. It's been known for a long time that the brains of infants and young children are improved by a rich learning environment. Learning at an early age organizes and improves the brain, which makes it easier to learn more in the future. Edit: Being taught some self control helps too, it can help children avoid being diagnosed with ADHD when they get to school!



Sure, but teaching them strategies to cope with the ADHD won't mean that they don't have ADHD.


  

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Don_G
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #12 - May 2nd, 2018 at 12:15pm
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Craig Sickler, if he was working toward a doctorate he wouldn't be doing this. It's too easy to link SnarkySack and burnsred to him.

I can't do it myself but I know a guy who can so I think I'll do it eventually for him. not on this forum but where he's more likely to appreciate it.
  
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Billie
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #13 - May 2nd, 2018 at 4:48pm
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SnarkySack wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 10:07am:
Sure, but teaching them strategies to cope with the ADHD won't mean that they don't have ADHD.


That's what I object to. There have always been high energy rambunctious children. Often they get wound up in what they are doing and thinking and dreaming and don't pay attention to adults when they need to. There have also always been children like I was, who got bored with the pace of a class and drifted off mentally.

Teaching them to control themselves enough to sit quietly, listen and pay attention is not only essential for schooling, the ability comes in handy throughout life in all sorts of situations.

This used to be considered the job of parents, who were expected to deliver children reasonably in control of themselves to the schools, who as part of the education process would continue to help them learn to control themselves.

"Progressives" theories of education tossed all that out the window, in part on the recommendations of "scientific" psychologists, who have no idea at all what to do about the children that are the result and are dumped on the schools and given psychoactive drugs because they were never  taught to control themselves.

It is deemed necessary to give them such drugs because they have a listed Mental Disorder.

It is not "strategies" to deal with their ADHD, that need to be taught. It is a modicum of self control before they are sent to school, and more after they are there.

This is related to my question of the possible qualitative differences in the minds of people who work and people who don't have to ever work and never do. If you exclude the idle rich, you are talking about a large pool of people who never worked and have children without fathers and often "raise" them without families to help.

Are not the children born to single women on welfare who grow up in the ghetto where they learn from an early age that no one around them works? Are not such children much more likely to behave in ways that you call the "mental disorder" ADHD and therefore be given psychoactive drugs more often?

Where's the scientific follow up studies for drugging so many schoolchildren? Surely you must have learned of them in your studies for your Masters in Ed psych. Link me to some, thanks, I'd like to read a few of them.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #14 - May 3rd, 2018 at 7:39pm
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Ritalin has replaced spanking, there needs to be a better alternative.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #15 - May 3rd, 2018 at 11:53pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Ritalin has replaced spanking, there needs to be a better alternative.


There is Ruby! The problem with Ritalen is mostly in the US because people don't care about their children. Wasn't Newtown enough proof of that??

Socially responsible caring for children is what it's all about. You should ask burnsred for more details.
  
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Billie
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #16 - May 4th, 2018 at 7:11am
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RubyHypatia wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 7:39pm:
Ritalin has replaced spanking, there needs to be a better alternative.
Parental responsibility is essential.

Telling parents "Sorry, your child is not ready for school" would go a long way I think. No more using the schools as day care providers who parents hope will teach their children some self control; If the children aren't ready, their parents will have to deal with them until they are.

It's unfortunate that their aren't any easy solutions to the complex intertwined messes that implementation of "progressive" polices have intentionally created in the last 50 years.

  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #17 - May 4th, 2018 at 8:19am
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Billie wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 4:48pm:
That's what I object to. There have always been high energy rambunctious children. Often they get wound up in what they are doing and thinking and dreaming and don't pay attention to adults when they need to. There have also always been children like I was, who got bored with the pace of a class and drifted off mentally.

Teaching them to control themselves enough to sit quietly, listen and pay attention is not only essential for schooling, the ability comes in handy throughout life in all sorts of situations.

This used to be considered the job of parents, who were expected to deliver children reasonably in control of themselves to the schools, who as part of the education process would continue to help them learn to control themselves.

"Progressives" theories of education tossed all that out the window, in part on the recommendations of "scientific" psychologists, who have no idea at all what to do about the children that are the result and are dumped on the schools and given psychoactive drugs because they were never  taught to control themselves.

It is deemed necessary to give them such drugs because they have a listed Mental Disorder.

It is not "strategies" to deal with their ADHD, that need to be taught. It is a modicum of self control before they are sent to school, and more after they are there.

This is related to my question of the possible qualitative differences in the minds of people who work and people who don't have to ever work and never do. If you exclude the idle rich, you are talking about a large pool of people who never worked and have children without fathers and often "raise" them without families to help.

Are not the children born to single women on welfare who grow up in the ghetto where they learn from an early age that no one around them works? Are not such children much more likely to behave in ways that you call the "mental disorder" ADHD and therefore be given psychoactive drugs more often?

Where's the scientific follow up studies for drugging so many schoolchildren? Surely you must have learned of them in your studies for your Masters in Ed psych. Link me to some, thanks, I'd like to read a few of them.


My field is behavior, not pharmacology.

Ask a question about that and I can answer as an expert.  My opinion of drugging kids is that of a layman.

To answer the part I bolded since it does have to do with my field:  Teaching them "a modicum of self-control" is a strategy.  Where I differ from mom doing that is that mom doesn't usually understand the difference between how to teach a kid with ADHD and a kid without ADHD.  So she doesn't understand why what worked with her first kid doesn't work with her second kid.  She will benefit from my guidance, just as your mom or teachers benefited from guidance from scientific experts in the field of mind science.
  

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Don_G
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #18 - May 4th, 2018 at 12:09pm
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Billie wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 7:11am:
Parental responsibility is essential.

Telling parents "Sorry, your child is not ready for school" would go a long way I think. No more using the schools as day care providers who parents hope will teach their children some self control; If the children aren't ready, their parents will have to deal with them until they are.

It's unfortunate that their aren't any easy solutions to the complex intertwined messes that implementation of "progressive" polices have intentionally created in the last 50 years.



Craig, I don't mind giving you a bit of help on this topic in case you don't know yourself where burnsred and the rest of his psych community has gone wrong.

They invent ADHD in order to invent and stimulate business in the child psych profession. Two-thirds of the kids they label with the affliction are perfectly normal.

In any case, your argument has so far been in that direction, what I've bothered to read of the topic. So I expect you won't fail to mention it.

The web is loaded with hits like this one and most of them are real doctors.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/work-of-fiction/
  
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Billie
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Re: Doctoral Degrees in the Sciences
Reply #19 - May 4th, 2018 at 1:10pm
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SnarkySack wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 8:19am:
My field is behavior, not pharmacology.

Ask a question about that and I can answer as an expert.  My opinion of drugging kids is that of a layman.


You managed to get two Masters degrees in psychology without ever learning anything about the use of drugs to treat "mental disorders"?

Even if you are a behaviorist who prefers aversion therapy to drugs, (OK, you are probably a "modern" behaviorist who believes only in reward therapy) you can't possibly be that ignorant of everything else. Even intelligent laymen know the basic idea behind using psychoactive drugs to alter behavior... That is what they are claimed to do for schoolchildren you know, alter behavior in beneficial ways.
  
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