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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Liberals Will Always See Racism (Read 3363 times)
Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #350 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:18pm
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No! For whatever reason they have made it work very badly. We may differ somewhat on the reasons why...
Somewhat? I think they have failed because it is inevitable.

Why do you think government control is a failure?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #351 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:22pm
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I don't know how but I'm always interested in learning how.
Congress is determined to continue to have bureaucrats run medical insurance and medical care, that's how.

That will guarantee that we will have cronyism and corruption and a failed "system".
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #352 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:45pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:38am:
Theories of liberty include that idea that you are (and must be) responsible for yourself and your actions, and that you must respect the rights of others.

You have an idea that the moral precept of sharing can be taught, which is true, but whether it is accepted by individuals is up to them.

The idea of forced sharing is absurd. You can't claim that people being forced to share are acting morally.


No, I never claimed that. My claims are on a level you can't understand, apparently. Look at the part I bolded. People should not have to share.

The Opposition wrote on Jun 3rd, 2018 at 11:02pm:
You're the one misrepresenting what I said.

I admitted that there's nothing wrong with the Cato Institute, the Mises Institute, or many of the people (Skychief, Burnsy, Ruby) that follow libertarianism. I said libertarianism itself, as a philosophy, wins over all others, hands down.

However, it is attracting selfish, spoiled, child-first generation mental two-year-olds who never learned to share. They're right that they shouldn't have to, but they adopted libertarianism because they never learned to.

Try to understand the analogy.

I'm also saying there is nothing really wrong with the tenets of the Catholic faith or most of the people following it. However, something about it is attracting paedophiles.


Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:38am:
Ignorant young people have regularly been attracted to Marxism and socialism because it promises a wonderful life for everyone. They imagine that a "socialist system" will provide everyone with safety and security and plenty, and doesn't that sound wonderful! Whether they realize it or not, they are attracted to the idea that they can remain pampered children in a society of equals all willing to share with them to provide for their every 'need'.

That is a very selfish attitude as well as being completely delusional.


It's delusional and selfless. Your characterisation of socialism is as bad as any strawman of libertarianism.

Ideological socialists don't want to be leeches. They want from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

It doesn't work, but it's not selfish.

Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:38am:
In order to be able to share, you must first create something that you can share,


You can share natural resources, or temporal resources, Being able to take turns is a form of sharing. You are basically sharing time.

Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:38am:
I stand by my assertion. Selfish children who don't want to grow up are attracted to socialism. People who want to grow up and hope to be able to help others are attracted to libertarianism.


Libertarians like to point out what happens in reality to support their argument that socialism doesn't work.

I would like to point out that in reality, no other group glorifies insults over rational debate, even on the internet. Look at the objectively worst ideology: Racism. The people on Stormfront respect one another, as well as their opponents.

Every ideology has its human filth, but libertarianism is especially dirty. It's the best as an ideology, but the worst if judged by its followers.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #353 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:33am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:45pm:
No, I never claimed that. My claims are on a level you can't understand, apparently. Look at the part I bolded. People should not have to share.
You've given up on your love for authoritarian government?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #354 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:50am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:45pm:
It's delusional and selfless. Your characterisation of socialism is as bad as any strawman of libertarianism.

Ideological socialists don't want to be leeches. They want from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

It doesn't work, but it's not selfish.


Ideological socialists do believe that the Marxist tenet that you mentioned will make everything safe and secure for everyone, not based on any idea that they will be producing for others, but that others will produce for them. It's an irrational belief, but it's fundamentally selfish whether they are aware of it or not. It's a vision with religious power, the belief that a magical "System" will create a world of free flowing milk and honey where everyone can just take what they need. It's a daydream for selfish children.

If they were not selfish, they would take enough time to learn what you noted, it doesn't work. It creates poverty, destruction, war and famine.

They persist in their selfish dream because it sounds so much better than having to take responsibility for themselves and their own lives and actually figure out how to earn a living.

Please note lizard, that I believe there are not and never have been, more than a handful of adults who maintain the communist dreams of their youth. Most of those who pass themselves off as adults dreaming of communism are actually cynical and power hungry. They want to be the "leaders" who live in the palace and send out the orders to the bureaucrats who are supposed to be creating the "socialist system", or they just want to be the heads of the bureaucracies, or cronies, or the head of the secret police. All of them are selfish.

Real communists are very rare past the age of 25, but even as children, they work to implement a failed dream and they do it for selfish reasons... They want to live in the paradise they imagine communism will create.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #355 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:04am
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And yet people from all over the world, especially Canada, come to the U.S. for medical treatment.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #356 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:21am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:04am:
And yet people from all over the world, especially Canada, come to the U.S. for medical treatment. 
In the darkest days of the Cold War, I think high level Soviet functionaries sometimes went to Cuba... Probably because all the U.S. trained Doctors hadn't escaped yet.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #357 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 11:12pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:50am:
Ideological socialists do believe that the Marxist tenet that you mentioned will make everything safe and secure for everyone, not based on any idea that they will be producing for others, but that others will produce for them. It's an irrational belief, but it's fundamentally selfish whether they are aware of it or not. It's a vision with religious power, the belief that a magical "System" will create a world of free flowing milk and honey where everyone can just take what they need. It's a daydream for selfish children.


No. Most ideological communists want to work, but they've been screwed out of it by the fact that the free market favours deception and the social over actual proficiency. Communists want a government to swoop in and make everything fair. It's a pipe dream, but not a selfish one.

Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:50am:
If they were not selfish, they would take enough time to learn what you noted, it doesn't work.


Being or not being selfish has nothing to do with total sum of obtained knowledge or the propensity for self-deception.

Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:50am:
It creates poverty, destruction, war and famine.


So does capitalism, because it decays into cronyism.

Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:50am:
Please note lizard, that I believe there are not and never have been, more than a handful of adults who maintain the communist dreams of their youth. Most of those who pass themselves off as adults dreaming of communism are actually cynical and power hungry.


This is true of every single political philosophy. Self-advantage comes first, justification after.

They still know how to share, though. Even the worst of the worst of every other philosophy know how to listen (even if only to win at actual debate, they still have to debate), take turns, and at least pretend to share.

Libertarians have a severe problem unique to you. You never learned to share. It's not just that you don't want to.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #358 - Jun 7th, 2018 at 7:05am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 11:12pm:
Most ideological communists want to work...
What they consider fit work for them is to be the Leaders who live in the Palace and direct the bureaucrats who will create the "socialist system" and thus bring peace and plenty to everyone.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Liberals Will Always See Racism
Reply #359 - Jun 7th, 2018 at 7:10am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 11:12pm:
So does capitalism, because it decays into cronyism.


Systems of political economy are changed by people making laws.

Free markets did not "decay" they were destroyed/damaged/perverted by subverting the Constitution so as to give the government power over the economy.

When governments have power over economies, they create bureaucracies (which guarantees corruption) and they pass laws that favor their cronies and themselves.
  
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