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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Libertarian Republic of North Korea? (Read 363 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #10 - May 4th, 2018 at 1:00pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 9:36am:
Even if it were true that the U.S. Constitution was designed to limit the power of government, it didn't work.  Pretending that it did hinders, not furthers, progress toward freedom.

I know you think the Revolutionary War was all about protecting slavery, that in your fantastic alternate history, the American colonists only broke away from England because they knew the British were going to abolish slavery. Ha ha.

The Constitution worked quite well to limit government, better than anything before or since, and it is pretty well known how and when and why it stopped working to limit government, which means that fixing it to work that way again isn't something unknown that has to be discovered and tested.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #11 - May 4th, 2018 at 11:06pm
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I think this was tried in Somalia.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #12 - May 5th, 2018 at 9:02am
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The Opposition wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 11:06pm:
I think this was tried in Somalia.
Pretty much, yeah, but I don't think they had it in mind to create a free society of free people.
  
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Don_G
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #13 - May 5th, 2018 at 12:21pm
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I've done my part to keep this one alive for burnsred. But when the OP makes no rational sense at all, it probably just has to die.

Reading over the OP again, the best I can make out of it is that it's a shot at me with a reference to N.K.'s problems and then sort of forecasting what will take the place of N.K.'s government when it changes.

But in fact that's all predetermined by China. Knowing that, there's reason to keep this thread going for burnsred.

Craig Sickler, why not take a shot at burnsred with one of your usual bullying tactics? He's always going to take the bait when you do it.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #14 - May 5th, 2018 at 4:10pm
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Quote:
I've done my part to keep this one alive for burnsred. But when the OP makes no rational sense at all, it probably just has to die.

You keep making pronouncements about this thread or that "needing to die"...

I detect some very deep seated problems with unresolved anger.

In combination with you being "slow of mind", I believe modern credentialed mind scientists  believe you have a mental disorder, perhaps several. Cry

Ask Red about it to be sure and to learn whether a psychiatrist or a psychologist would be best able to help you, he can think at a doctoral level.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #15 - May 5th, 2018 at 7:49pm
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Jeff wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Pretty much, yeah, but I don't think they had it in mind to create a free society of free people.


There are two options with Somalia:

1. Admit that pure libertarianism (anarchy) creates a Hell-hole.

2. Admit that the population you start with matters. A lot.

Either way, anarchy alone provably does not create positive conditions. If it's moral, fine, but the argument from consequences doesn't work.

You can't just laugh off the result of Somalia as somehow irrelevant to pure libertarianism (anarchy) without admitting that the population matters.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Don_G
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2018 at 8:31pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
There are two options with Somalia:

1. Admit that pure libertarianism (anarchy) creates a Hell-hole.

2. Admit that the population you start with matters. A lot.

Either way, anarchy alone provably does not create positive conditions. If it's moral, fine, but the argument from consequences doesn't work.

You can't just laugh off the result of Somalia as somehow irrelevant to pure libertarianism (anarchy) without admitting that the population matters.


Helping Craig turn a discussion that involves Somalians into a joke now Oppo?

You know what that spells to a racism cop like me! Your credentials are far into the negative side already.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #17 - May 5th, 2018 at 10:36pm
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Jeff wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
I know you think the Revolutionary War was all about protecting slavery, that in your fantastic alternate history, the American colonists only broke away from England because they knew the British were going to abolish slavery. Ha ha.


As with the War Between the States in North America, the war was only partially about the "rebels" wanting to protect the institution of slavery.  Economics was the primary motivator of the wealthy landowners who led the revolution and the the wealthy landowners who led the secession, with slavery being only a part of the economic systems the were trying to protect.

If the founders or the confederate leaders were libertarian at all, they were very selective about who would have the natural rights libertarianism protects.


Quote:
The Constitution worked quite well to limit government, better than anything before or since, and it is pretty well known how and when and why it stopped working to limit government, which means that fixing it to work that way again isn't something unknown that has to be discovered and tested.


During the first term of the first president under the constitution, he was mounted up and leading a gang of storm troopers to collect a sin tax.  Hardly a limited government.

  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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The Opposition
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #18 - May 5th, 2018 at 10:44pm
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Helping Craig turn a discussion that involves Somalians into a joke now Oppo?

You know what that spells to a racism cop like me! Your credentials are far into the negative side already.


Report me then. I don't care. I can't win, so why try to?

I'll find a moderated forum to post on where they don't allow people to pull your brand of bullshit.

This just in: Don presses the automatic win button again. Yawn.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Libertarian Republic of North Korea?
Reply #19 - May 6th, 2018 at 9:15am
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The Opposition wrote on May 5th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
There are two options with Somalia:

1. Admit that pure libertarianism (anarchy) creates a Hell-hole.

2. Admit that the population you start with matters. A lot.

Either way, anarchy alone provably does not create positive conditions. If it's moral, fine, but the argument from consequences doesn't work.

You can't just laugh off the result of Somalia as somehow irrelevant to pure libertarianism (anarchy) without admitting that the population matters.
I think it's of more consequence to start with a reasonably good form of government.

What I saw throughout Africa after the European colonial powers abandoned Africa was that imported forms of "socially responsible" government took over most countries, and as you know, that means they were one party dictatorships looting and plundering the people and making war on anybody and everybody.

When a government like that falls apart, as they so often do, anarchy is the most likely result as tribal leaders fight to seize power.

A fundamental problem is that the imported forms of "socially responsible" government are essentially tribal in nature, so they fed on the existing tribal tensions rather than ameliorating them.

Not that the colonial powers had done much better... they did introduce better forms of government, but they drew up 'countries' on maps with no consideration that they often created 'countries' consisting of rival long time tribal enemies.

  
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