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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure (Read 1034 times)
BobK71
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #80 - May 23rd, 2018 at 12:50pm
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We know one thing for sure and that is that if a small country is about to experience a coup against the elected government,  the US has been involved in it's dirty tricks.

The list of countries grows longer and the number of lives destroyed by the US is already in the millions in several countries.


Hey, it's worth it, for freedom.  At least according to Madelene Albright (speaking about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who had died from US embargo of medical supplies meant to put pressure on Saddam.)
  
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Don_G
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #81 - May 23rd, 2018 at 1:09pm
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BobK71 wrote on May 23rd, 2018 at 12:50pm:
Hey, it's worth it, for freedom.  At least according to Madelene Albright (speaking about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who had died from US embargo of medical supplies meant to put pressure on Saddam.)


Love the sarcasm Bob, but unfortunately it won't penetrate thick skins the envelop their dogma and patriotism. Or whatever excuse they see fit.

I can hear people like Ruby already rushing to the defense. Or at best, embarrassed into silence.

You know, the ones that still hold the faith in finding the WMD's!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #82 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 9:05am
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Nicaragua joins in! Another triumph of "socially responsible government"!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nicaraguas-political-crisis-descends-into-dark-days...
  
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Don_G
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #83 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 12:47pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 9:05am:
Nicaragua joins in! Another triumph of "socially responsible government"!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nicaraguas-political-crisis-descends-into-dark-days...


There is inevitably always US involvement that causes the suffering in these small countries. When the US is prevented from becoming involved the crisis is eliminated.

Cuba stands as the example of communist success even though the US has prolonged the struggle to the detriment of the Cuban people. But Cuba has resisted and is now coming out the other side with the aid of other large powers.

The proof that can be offered of US bad will is the Stossel/Michael Moore discussion. The US can't be neutral on Cuba's health care success. It has to be negative and hoping to see evidence of it's failure.

That's mainly because it's a comparison to US health care failure. And so, factions in the US will continue to try to destroy Cuba's coming prosperity.

No socialist or communist country will be tolerated by the US. The only saving grace for those countries is their strength as nuclear powers or their backs looked after by their nuclear friends.

North Korea is now becoming a threat. Not a nuclear threat because Kim would never attempt a war against the US. But a threat of showing that N.K. can succeed if not sanctioned by US dirty tricks.


  
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SkyChief
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #84 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:05pm
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The proof that can be offered of US bad will is the Stossel/Michael Moore discussion. The US can't be neutral on Cuba's health care success. It has to be negative and hoping to see evidence of it's failure.

That's mainly because it's a comparison to US health care failure. And so, factions in the US will continue to try to destroy Cuba's coming prosperity.

But Stossel exposed the lie that Cuba's socialized health care is a success.  It clearly isn't.

The only Cubans who get comparable health care to Americans are the elites.

Most Cuban's health care experience involves ancient/dilapidated clinic/hospital facilities with filthy bug-infested rooms - these are depicted in the video.  Some patients die of starvation while in these horrible facilities.

One Cuban doctor said: (@ 2:23 in the video)

"We are crazy with desperation for lack of health care."



So the truth is there, but it's too ugly to watch.  So most people just ignore it.

Sad.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #85 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:05pm:
But Stossel exposed the lie that Cuba's socialized health care is a success.  It clearly isn't.

The only Cubans who get comparable health care to Americans are the elites.

Most Cuban's health care experience involves ancient/dilapidated clinic/hospital facilities with filthy bug-infested rooms - these are depicted in the video.  Some patients die of starvation while in these horrible facilities.

One Cuban doctor said: (@ 2:23 in the video)

"We are crazy with desperation for lack of health care."



So the truth is there, but it's too ugly to watch.  So most people just ignore it.

Sad.


You're allowing yourself to be a victim of the hate propaganda.

I've been there several times and I've talked to the people. And the WHO isn't making up lies for Cuba's sake.

The video is a propaganda piece obviously. But the interesting part of it is in asking what the US's motive could be.

I think I have given you an explanation for that!

Would you like to hear what the Cuban people say on a lot of topics? You could find some satisfaction in hearing the truth, at least in some cases that don't involve their health care system or the education system.

I'm hinting at the discussion on 'opportunity' in their communist system.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #86 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:50pm
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The video is a propaganda piece obviously.

There's no reason to believe that.

Stossel has nothing to gain by exposing the squalid conditions of (most) Cuban health care facilities.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #87 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:57pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:50pm:
There's no reason to believe that.

Stossel has nothing to gain by exposing the squalid conditions of (most) Cuban health care facilities.


Well that's an interesting assertion Chief. Maybe I'll look into that a little deeper and try to show what motivates him.

Other than the network that employs him demanding their party line.

And the other thing to consider is that a network will usually only hire people who are committed to their party line.

and

Announcers have the general ability to change party line when offered employment with another network with a contrary view. It's not out of the question that Fox News could someday hire Rachel Maddow. Maddow believes in what she says about as much as she knows she has to say the right thing. She could change on a dime. I suspect that Stossel could do the same. It's all to be taken with a grain of salf.

Do you think the WHO is biased for Cuba and against the US? That's really what you're trying to say isn't it. Do you really want to stand behind your country's health care system? Now that's a conversation I'm always anxious to get started!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #88 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 2:13pm
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Well that's an interesting assertion Chief. Maybe I'll look into that a little deeper and try to show what motivates him.

Please do. If you come up with some credible evidence which might suggest that Stossel is an anti-Cuba propaganda shill, I'm all ears.

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It's not out of the question that Fox News could someday hire Rachel Maddow.

Care to make a wager on that?  Make the stakes as high as you dare - I could REALLY use the money!   Smiley

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Do you think the WHO is biased for Cuba and against the US?

No, I don't think the WHO is biased in any way. 

I think when WHO inspectors are invited to Cuba to evaluate clinics and hospitals, they are directed to the nicer facilities - the ones reserved for the elite Cubans.

I think the WHO inspectors are deliberately steered away from the 'regular' health care facilities.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Venezuela - A Dismal Socialist Failure
Reply #89 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 2:30pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 2:13pm:
Please do. If you come up with some credible evidence which might suggest that Stossel is an anti-Cuba propaganda shill, I'm all ears.

Care to make a wager on that?  Make the stakes as high as you dare - I could REALLY use the money!   Smiley

No, I don't think the WHO is biased in any way. 

I think when WHO inspectors are invited to Cuba to evaluate clinics and hospitals, they are directed to the nicer facilities - the ones reserved for the elite Cubans.

I think the WHO inspectors are deliberately steered away from the 'regular' health care facilities.


So you're saying that the WHO errs because the truth is hidden from their inspectors. Fair enough, and that's Stossel's argument too.

I would suggest that all countries would attempt to show their health care system in the best possible light.

You're saying that the WHO doesn't have the ability to see the truth. I'm saying that they do. And to reinforce my argument I can can quote other sources. Michael Moore used the same argument but it was ignored.

In any case, you are taking a position against universal health care. I think it's fair game to point that out to you because my argument has that fact going for it.

That doesn't yet prove Cuba's health care is very well rated up with the countries that include the US at the low extreme of the scale. But it sure as hell begs the question.
  
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