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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women? (Read 656 times)
Don_G
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #20 - May 10th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 10th, 2018 at 10:13am:
Is it your serous contention that no government activity can ever be funded except through forced taxation?  Take away their "right" to steal and they won't go away.  They will quickly implement revenue gathering methods that don't include force.




It really does appear that's the case with him!

But you just gotta read what the Chief says about taxes. He says some moonbat will introduce a whole bunch of taxes and that will destroy his new libertarian utopia. But everybody knows that he wants to introduce a whole bunch of new taxes himself!

And the LP doesn't believe in any taxes!

What the fuk's wrong with these people's head Craig?

Me and you pal, me and you!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #21 - May 10th, 2018 at 1:39pm
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But you just gotta read what the Chief says about taxes. He says some moonbat will introduce a whole bunch of taxes and that will destroy his new libertarian utopia. But everybody knows that he wants to introduce a whole bunch of new taxes himself!

As a bona fide moonbat, you can't possibly make the distinction between an Income Tax and a VAT Tax. So naturally, everything I proposed makes no sense to you. You conflate simple concepts - an apple becomes an orange.  They both grow on trees, and they both have seeds, therefore they are the same.

Such a dullard.

Others I have talked to think my plan to eliminate Income tax is a good one. 
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #22 - May 10th, 2018 at 11:55pm
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Jeff wrote on May 10th, 2018 at 9:10am:
Modern libertarians agree, except for the lunatic anarchist fringe who are not rational enough to understand that anarchy won't bring individual liberty without having a world full of perfect pure libertarians first.


If you think that believing in a philosophy means believing that philosophy will have good results, you don't really believe shit.

You just want the good results.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #23 - May 11th, 2018 at 8:03am
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The Opposition wrote on May 10th, 2018 at 11:55pm:
If you think that believing in a philosophy means believing that philosophy will have good results, you don't really believe shit.

You just want the good results.
A philosophy of anarchy is not libertarian, it is anarchic.

Libertarian philosophy and theory and policies are geared toward maximizing individual liberty under a limited government of law, because rational libertarians understand that anarchy won't lead to or protect individual liberty.
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #24 - May 11th, 2018 at 2:02pm
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Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 8:03am:
A philosophy of anarchy is not libertarian, it is anarchic.

Libertarian philosophy and theory and policies are geared toward maximizing individual liberty under a limited government of law, because rational libertarians understand that anarchy won't lead to or protect individual liberty.


If there are rational libertarians within the LP, then we don't hear from them. Their platform of 'no taxes' just kills the whole deal before anybody can get interested.

They're going to have to moderate their beliefs. People like the Chief make even the conversation impossible here.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #25 - May 11th, 2018 at 3:46pm
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If there are rational libertarians within the LP, then we don't hear from them. Their platform of 'no taxes' just kills the whole deal before anybody can get interested.

They're going to have to moderate their beliefs. People like the Chief make even the conversation impossible here.

You're bitterness and frustration is perfectly understandable.  Intellectually, you can't keep up with the rest of us.
So you stomp and pout and kick over the chess-board.

Sad, really.   Sad
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #26 - May 11th, 2018 at 5:05pm
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If there are rational libertarians within the LP, then we don't hear from them. Their platform of 'no taxes' just kills the whole deal before anybody can get interested.

They're going to have to moderate their beliefs. People like the Chief make even the conversation impossible here.
Are you wholly evil or just trying to get in as a crony?

If you have proof that the Libertarian Party has been infiltrated by "progressive" operatives for decades, produce it. Otherwise don't slander the LP.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #27 - May 11th, 2018 at 11:02pm
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Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 8:03am:
A philosophy of anarchy is not libertarian, it is anarchic.


It's both. Just like cats are both cats and mammals.

Libertarianism is about following the NAP, which declares that taxation is theft, because it's involuntary.

You can't have a government in any established way without taxation.

Jeff wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 8:03am:
Libertarian philosophy and theory and policies are geared toward maximizing individual liberty under a limited government of law, because rational libertarians understand that anarchy won't lead to or protect individual liberty.


It's not about protecting liberty with force, just like it's not about protecting bureaucrats' jobs or social security with force.

Nothing that needs to be protected with force should exist.

Force is wrong, always. End of story. You don't believe that - you're not a libertarian.

I can demonstrate this easily by simply looking at Don. He wants liberty but thinks some things must be protected with force. His list is longer than yours, but what makes him not a libertarian is that there is anything at all on that list.

You can argue that you're more libertarian because your list of things that should be protected by force is shorter, sure. But honestly it's like claiming a dolphin is closer to being a fish than a camel because it's vaguely shaped like a fish.

Having more traits in common with a fish than someone else does not make you a fish. Having all of the traits necessary to be a fish makes you a fish.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #28 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:34am
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 10th, 2018 at 10:13am:
Is it your serous contention that no government activity can ever be funded except through forced taxation?
Governments have always extracted wealth from their subjects by force or with the threat of force, and until the U.S. Constitution, governments had no limits at all on their taxing powers.

The American States under the Articles of convention attempted to fund government by voluntary contributions, but nobody contributed.

I don't know of any other examples of a government anywhere or any time that tried to fund itself by voluntary contributions. If you know of some, tell me, please.

In the meantime, the one known attempt at funding government voluntarily failed.

But yes, our Government could fund it's "National Parks" by charging fees, but the general libertarian position is that "National Parks" are not a legitimate function of government. Where can authority to create "National Parks" be found in the Constitution?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #29 - May 12th, 2018 at 8:44am
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The Opposition wrote on May 11th, 2018 at 11:02pm:
It's both. Just like cats are both cats and mammals.

Libertarianism is about following the NAP, which declares that taxation is theft, because it's involuntary.

You can't have a government in any established way without taxation.


It's not about protecting liberty with force, just like it's not about protecting bureaucrats' jobs or social security with force.

Nothing that needs to be protected with force should exist.

Force is wrong, always. End of story. You don't believe that - you're not a libertarian.

I can demonstrate this easily by simply looking at Don. He wants liberty but thinks some things must be protected with force. His list is longer than yours, but what makes him not a libertarian is that there is anything at all on that list.

You can argue that you're more libertarian because your list of things that should be protected by force is shorter, sure. But honestly it's like claiming a dolphin is closer to being a fish than a camel because it's vaguely shaped like a fish.

Having more traits in common with a fish than someone else does not make you a fish. Having all of the traits necessary to be a fish makes you a fish.
Purely as philosophy, it's still only the lunatic anarchist fringe who theorize about a fantastical world without governments using any force on anyone.

What makes you insist that the NAP was ever intend to, or ever could, apply to governments? Rothbard right? You think Rothbard is the Libertarian Prophet and the NAP is the Commandment He brought from God?

Have you read Rothbard on national defense? He said we won't need any once we get rid of our government. That's not rational.

Fine. You are still stuck with the fact that an absence of government is anarchy, that people will not voluntarily fund government, and that anarchy has never led to individual liberty within a civilized society.



  
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