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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women? (Read 439 times)
The Opposition
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #30 - May 12th, 2018 at 9:10pm
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Jeff wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 8:44am:
Purely as philosophy, it's still only the lunatic anarchist fringe who theorize about a fantastical world without governments using any force on anyone.

What makes you insist that the NAP was ever intend to, or ever could, apply to governments? Rothbard right? You think Rothbard is the Libertarian Prophet and the NAP is the Commandment He brought from God?

Have you read Rothbard on national defense? He said we won't need any once we get rid of our government. That's not rational.


It's not about being rational, it's about following the NAP.

How can you not understand that?

The only thing that makes it wrong for government to (for example) take your guns is the NAP.

Without the NAP, leftists are correct that freedom should be sacrificed if it saves lives.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #31 - May 13th, 2018 at 8:57am
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The Opposition wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 9:10pm:
It's not about being rational, it's about following the NAP.

How can you not understand that?

I understand that an irrational interpretation of the NAP can lead people into anarchist errors, especially if they tend to think in utopian ways.

What makes it wrong for anyone or any organization to remove my means of self defense is the fact that I have a Right to defend myself, and it remains a necessary Right because not everyone follows the NAP.

Here's an example-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5721939/French-police-shoot-knifeman-lau...

Despite the fact that the French have done everything a "socially responsible government" is supposed to do, there are still bad people in Paris, which I believe is a "gun free zone".
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #32 - May 13th, 2018 at 9:01am
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The Opposition wrote on May 12th, 2018 at 9:10pm:
Without the NAP, leftists are correct that freedom should be sacrificed if it saves lives.
But sacrificing freedom does not save lives.

Sure you can point to maximum security penitentiaries and claim that they keep all the inmates safe, but they don't. People still get killed inside them.

In the broad view, over time and around the world, a lack of individual freedom has permitted tyrannical governments to slaughter people wholesale.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #33 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:11pm
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Jeff wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 9:01am:
But sacrificing freedom does not save lives.


Sometimes it does.

The only thing that protects your freedom and property against "but, lives will be saved" is the NAP.

Someone could kill a healthy person, and, using all their organs, easily save at least six dying people.

The NAP is the sole reason the pure calculus of lives saved versus lives lost is not moral, because the NAP dictates that we must not violate a person's body - his property - even to help someone.

If you deny the NAP as absolute, then your property is forfeit whenever that forfeiture genuinely serves the greater good.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #34 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:37pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 4:11pm:
Sometimes it does.

Of course. The lives of many children have been saved by not allowing them out after dark by themselves.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #35 - May 13th, 2018 at 4:40pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 4:11pm:
The NAP is the sole reason the pure calculus of lives saved versus lives lost is not moral, because the NAP dictates that we must not violate a person's body - his property - even to help someone.

Did they change your meds, or are you off them?

You've managed to drag more dogma from the NAP than Islamic Scholars have been able to make out of the Koran, and they had 1400 years to do it!
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #36 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:22pm
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If you think the NAP is not a good principle, state your principle that stops the government from taking your property.

If you don't believe that morality is a function of principles, then it's pointless to talk about morality, because you can't impart anything to me and I can't impart anything to you.

Morality that doesn't go on principles, consistently applied, is just feelings, and no two people will ever have identical feelings.

I admit that most people only state principles as after-the-fact justification, but if it really is all just fee-fees, there's no possibility for a psychopath to ever be moral. Which is fine with me, because I can stop trying to be moral and just follow the law.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #37 - May 13th, 2018 at 7:00pm
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The Opposition wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
If you think the NAP is not a good principle, state your principle that stops the government from taking your property.

They have been granted no power to do so unless they use the granted power of eminent domain to take your property for a legitimate public purpose, to fill a public need in a way that is generally helpful to the national public. And they have to pay you a fair price for your condemned property, and you have the right to challenge the taking in court.

The essential argument is a lack of power.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #38 - May 13th, 2018 at 7:02pm
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Jeff wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 7:00pm:
They have been granted no power to do so unless they use the granted power of eminent domain to take your property for a legitimate public purpose, to fill a public need in a way that is generally helpful to the national public. And they have to pay you a fair price for your condemned property, and you have the right to challenge the taking in court.

The essential argument is a lack of power.

BTW, principles don't "dictate". Authoritarian governments and Dictators dictate.
  
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SnarkySack
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Re: Why be Surprised that Left Media and Statist Politicians Abuse Women?
Reply #39 - May 14th, 2018 at 1:29pm
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Jeff wrote on May 13th, 2018 at 7:00pm:
They have been granted no power to do so unless they use the granted power of eminent domain to take your property for a legitimate public purpose, to fill a public need in a way that is generally helpful to the national public. And they have to pay you a fair price for your condemned property, and you have the right to challenge the taking in court.

The essential argument is a lack of power.


“Public need?” “Generally helpful?” “Fair price?

Pretty vague terms for justifying taking property by force.
  

I used to be burnsred . . .
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