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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Downfall of Every Society (Read 871 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #50 - Oct 24th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 11:17am:
Most people would rather be slaves to the weather than slaves to another person's whims.
I take this to mean you think most people would really rather be subsistence farmers? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #51 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:46am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 11:17am:
Just look how hard the libertarians will ridicule me just for realising how it works, even when I'm not condemning the actions.

It makes me want to agree with you, because they believe their control is broken by mere knowledge. They believe the NAP would never fly if people knew what those following it are doing, and causing.

Sorry, I'm not sure I completely get you here.
The Opposition wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 11:17am:
Most people would rather be slaves to the weather than slaves to another person's whims. The wind may come and blow away your crops, but there's no malice in it. Your average HR power-tripper? Meh, not so much.

They say we're hard-wired to recognize and detest injustice, right?  We're social beings and this must be one of the survival instincts as a group.  People resent an unfair distribution, even if the losers are receiving more than they would have under the alternative.

Again, it's material well-being vs. happiness.  Resentment takes away the happiness of all, eventually.

The Opposition wrote on Oct 24th, 2018 at 11:17am:
One of the common threads in your posts is the curse of overspecialisation. Think of a panda, who depends on bamboo and only bamboo, then think of a rat - the super-generalist, the perennially self-sufficient.


I think overspecialization is another symptom of modern economic distortions.  You could even argue you and I are examples.  We learned how to analyze and conceptualize well because we thought we would be rewarded somehow, by watching how the economy works.  Does it really make us happier?  I have come to doubt this seriously.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #52 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:01am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:46am:
People resent an unfair distribution, even if the losers are receiving more than they would have under the alternative.

What would be a "fair" distribution?

Who decides whether the "distribution" is "fair" or "unfair"?

If your talking about giving out coolies to the children at a birthday party, I'd say every child gets the same number of cookies...

But you're talking about the "unfair/fair" distribution of wealth in a heterogeneous society with a highly complex economy, right?
  
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BobK71
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #53 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:07am
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Jeff wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:01am:
What would be a "fair" distribution?

Who decides whether the "distribution" is "fair" or "unfair"?

If your talking about giving out coolies to the children at a birthday party, I'd say every child gets the same number of cookies...

But you're talking about the "unfair/fair" distribution of wealth in a heterogeneous society with a highly complex economy, right?


It is assumed there is a universal standard for fairness for the purpose of this discussion.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #54 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:10am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:46am:
I think overspecialization is another symptom of modern economic distortions.
Lots of people used to specialize in making and installing horse shoes, now only a few do. Smiley

What modern free (or fairly free) economies do is create vastly more opportunities for you to specialize in many different things, or not. It's your choice.

Some people can make more money or be happier if they choose a narrow specialty, others will be happier and may make more money by not specializing...

Do you have any idea how many different things a modern family farmer has to know about and be able to do? But he still 'specializes' in farming.

Anyway, what are the economic distortions you see as contributing to overspecialization?

How do you know the current amount of specialization isn't just exactly the right amount?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #55 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:12am
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 10:07am:
It is assumed there is a universal standard for fairness for the purpose of this discussion.
Ha ha.

Say, is this discussion taking place in a place of infinite land?

There aren't even "universal standards" for simple things like weights and measures.

Anyway, what is the "universal standard for fairness" when it comes to the distribution of wealth, which I presume is what you're talking about?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #56 - Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:42pm
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BobK71 wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:46am:
Sorry, I'm not sure I completely get you here.


I'll let you read Jeff's responses to you. He thinks he's forced to ridicule and shout down any opinions that suggest any ills come out of the free market. He doesn't understand that people will accept the free market because it is right, even if the results are sometimes troubling.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #57 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:14am
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The Opposition wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 8:42pm:
I'll let you read Jeff's responses to you. He thinks he's forced to ridicule and shout down any opinions that suggest any ills come out of the free market. He doesn't understand that people will accept the free market because it is right, even if the results are sometimes troubling.
What's your grasp of the idea of a "universal standard of fairness"?




Free markets allow people to make bad decisions and lose money and see their companies go out of business so people lose their jobs, but that is better than having lawmakers and bureaucrats make bad decisions the cripple entire economies (like Venezuela).

There is a another side to it, in that free markets allow people to profit from their hard work and their ideas, while government controlled markets funnel wealth to cronies in and out of government.

The point is, there is no way to stop people from making bad decisions, but the result of free market bad decisions is local while the bad ideas of lawmakers and bureaucrats can be systemic.

There is another point, that free markets do a far better job of creating wealth than do government controlled markets... If you want poverty to be distributed equally, in order to be "fair", all that need be done is to give control of the economy to government... But of course the government people in control of the economy and of the "fair" distribution of poverty always seem to be rich...
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Downfall of Every Society
Reply #58 - Oct 26th, 2018 at 9:15am
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This is a good exposition of something that's on point I think-

https://www.aier.org/article/government-gold-and-separating-money-state
  
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