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Snarky Sack
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"Libertarian Courts?"
May 15th, 2018 at 1:31pm
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Several semi-libertarians on this forum have stated in different ways that, in a libertarian system, the courts will protect us from government and other users of force.  For example, if government unfairly invokes imminent domain to force us to sell our land, we can sue if we don't think the price is fair.  Or if someone defrauds us, the courts will make them repay us. 

This misunderstands the simple and obvious truth that courts are part of the government.  Their entire source power is that they are a branch of this monopoly of force.  Judges are no more wise and no less biased than any other kind of powerful government official, as all the history of the U.S. shows.  Outcomes almost always depend on the quality of lawyers on each side - almost never depend on fairness.

Juries also are just another part of government.  Good idea, juries of our peers.  Nice try, really.  But in practice, juries are selected through a process in which both sides attempt to pack the panel with people as unlike the party on the other side as possible.  So litigants often end up with juries as far from being peers of either of them as is possible in the U.S.  Not to mention that juries are controlled by judges who in most cases can force them to rule one way or another or overturn their ruling.  When jury decisions are appealed, it is 100% in front of judges who can over-ride their decisions with a tap of the gavel.

Judges and juries won't make fraudsters return money.  How often does that happen?   Let criminal courts be paid for by voluntary donations from people who believe that criminal courts will actually prevent crime.  Let those who don't, invest in alarms and guard dogs.  I would do both, but give more confidence in my security to Rex and Rover than to the "hanging judge."    Let those who want contracts to be enforced pay a fee against any future litigation expenses.  I wouldn't bother.  My security would rest in dealing with reputable people who have a stake in maintaining that reputation.  I wouldn't expect to be able to afford a better lawyer than some company can.
  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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SkyChief
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #1 - May 15th, 2018 at 1:50pm
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Privatizing the Courts would not be practical, IMO.  But I agree with your assertion that the Courts are a part of government [Administrative, Legislative, & Judicial].

My complaint about government-run courts is that (in addition to all of the corruption) they are so inefficient - it can literally take years for some cases to go to trial.

What ever happened to a "speedy" trial that the 6th Amendment guarantees us?
  
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Jeff
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #2 - May 15th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
This misunderstands the simple and obvious truth that courts are part of the government. 
Right. A separate part with it's own duties and obligations.
  
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Jeff
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #3 - May 15th, 2018 at 2:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 1:50pm:
Privatizing the Courts would not be practical, IMO.  But I agree with your assertion that the Courts are a part of government [Administrative, Legislative, & Judicial].

My complaint about government-run courts is that (in addition to all of the corruption) they are so inefficient - it can literally take years for some cases to go to trial.

What ever happened to a "speedy" trial that the 6th Amendment guarantees us?
You can blame a lot of the long waits on the war on drugs and the rest of it on lawyers.
  
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Jeff
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #4 - May 15th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Not to mention that juries are controlled by judges who in most cases can force them to rule one way or another or overturn their ruling.
This is an untruth promulgated by "progressives" who want all power to reside in government. In fact, juries are independent of the judge and even the laws.

All of your complaints boil down, as usual, to to the fact that you don't like the things "progressives" have done to our government, so you blame the system of government rather than the people who subverted it.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2018 at 4:36pm by Jeff »  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2018 at 3:09pm
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Jeff wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
Right. A separate part with it's own duties and obligations.


"Separate?"

First, how in the world is is "separate?"  It has the power to over-ride lawmakers and give orders to executives.  Sounds like the boss of the organization, not a "separate part." 

Second, what does it matter if it were "separate" since they govern us just with just as much authoritarianism as the "other parts" of the government?


  

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Jeff
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #6 - May 15th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 3:09pm:
"Separate?"

First, how in the world is is "separate?"
It's a common word, used to delineate things one from another... Is it new to you? Are you struggling with English (as I still am...)?

How long have you been a grad student?

In my deepest heart of hearts, I hope you aren't being paid to teach psych 101.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #7 - May 15th, 2018 at 8:06pm
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Jeff wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 4:38pm:
It's a common word, used to delineate things one from another... Is it new to you? Are you struggling with English (as I still am...)?

How long have you been a grad student?

In my deepest heart of hearts, I hope you aren't being paid to teach psych 101.


If you know what separate means, then surely you know that the courts are not separate from the legislative, executive and bureaucratic areas of the government.  They are intertwined by design and in practice.  There is no separation of powers.
  

"Taxes are morally justified theft" - Jeff
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The Opposition
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #8 - May 16th, 2018 at 12:29am
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One thing I've always lol'd at is conceited libertarians thinking that if only the courts and police become privatised, those nasty pigs will just have to respect rights then!

No, they won't. You'll get respect of rights, just not the ones you want.

Free market justice has absolutely nothing to gain from something as unpopular as the NAP.

Here's the cold, hard truth: You, as a libertarian, are a super-minority. The market does not give a flying duck what you want.

You are 1%, in America, and that's generous. This is the number of people who voted for Gary Johnson, who may have lost votes for not being very libertarian, but remember that the reason politicians depart from purism is to gain votes.

In some instances, a free market can successfully cater to a 1%. My intellect is a one in a thousand, making me a tenth of a percent, and there are products out there designed for people like me. (I'm probably close to 1/1000 in how spicy I like my food, too.)

In some instances, the 1% will just lose. For example, how the duck do you think your specialty private court that advertises it goes on the NAP will protect you from the private court someone is paying more for, that advertises it will protect its clients from hate speech? Newsflah: If that's what's overwhelmingly popular, that is going to win.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: "Libertarian Courts?"
Reply #9 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:07am
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 8:06pm:
There is no separation of powers. 
Blame "progressives" for that, to the extent that it is true.

The S.Ct. just decided a case where they mentioned the 10th Amendment and the "enumerated powers" of Congress, holding that Congress could not exceed it's enumerated powers.

Does that sound like they're all in it together? No. It sounds like there is a glimmer of hope for limited government!
  
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