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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers." (Read 1367 times)
ahhell
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #10 - May 21st, 2018 at 1:00pm
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The ridicule of "thoughts and prayer"  lately seems mostly directed at the conservatives who offer their thoughts and prayers when there's a mass shooting but those same conservatives oppose most new gun control legislation.  So, to the pro-control crowd, its especially hollow to offer prayer in lieu of actual legislation that might prevent deaths.

Which is totally understandable.
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #11 - May 21st, 2018 at 1:03pm
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ahhell wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 12:42pm:
I basically agree with Don on this.  Praying does not equal thinking, especially not critical thinking.

People ridicule thoughts and prayers because they have as much effect as comments on an internet forum.  The sentiment rings especially hollow in the face of a tragedy that progressives think could have been prevented by enacting laws that the prayer wouldn't pass. 

I think they are wrong about that last bit but I understand why it would generate scorn.


They are certainly wrong to think that laws restricting gun ownership would prevent school shootings.

They are also wrong to think that private prayer is not an act that facilitates and even demands critical thinking.  No two people agree exactly on the nature of God or any other deity.  Therefore no two people will agree on exactly what a person should or should not communicate in a prayer. 

Other than the most radical of Islam, I can't think of any religion in the world that is as dogmatic and as much of an anathema to critical thought as the quasi-religion of the American statist.
  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #12 - May 21st, 2018 at 1:08pm
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ahhell wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 1:00pm:
The ridicule of "thoughts and prayer"  lately seems mostly directed at the conservatives who offer their thoughts and prayers when there's a mass shooting but those same conservatives oppose most new gun control legislation.  So, to the pro-control crowd, its especially hollow to offer prayer in lieu of actual legislation that might prevent deaths.

Which is totally understandable.


It's understandable that they want to be able to ridicule freedom and ridicule religion at the same time, since both are so opposed to their state-as-God attitude. 

I give them no points for the supposed logic that 'those people who think and pray are the same people who oppose gun laws, so they suck' since both thinking and private praying offer an opportunity for an individual to reflect.  Reflecting often leads to reassessment of one's position on issues.  That we would reassess our position on the issue of gun control is the goal of the statists who ridicule "thoughts and prayers."  Therefore, their ridicule is at cross-purposes to their own goal. 


  

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SkyChief
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #13 - May 21st, 2018 at 1:22pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 12:57pm:
It is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate to pray for and whether his or her particular prayers fit in with that definition.  How could one think any more critically than that?

Critical thinking does not allow for prayer(s).  Praying never accomplished anything.  Ever. 

Even if we take away the God element from it, prayer can never amount to anything more than 'wishful' thinking.

Wishful thinking  ≠  Critical thinking.

Snarky Sack wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 12:57pm:
If your point is nothing more than, 'religion is stoopid!' then that is a nearly perfect stance to take if your goal is to make sure people are put off of the idea of libertarianism.

You're making a big mistake by conflating prayer and critical thinking.  It has nothing whatsoever to to with libertarianism.

It's time for you to back down on this silly notion, Burns.  Really. 

Think about it, won't you?  Critically, I mean.   Wink
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #14 - May 21st, 2018 at 1:36pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 1:22pm:
Critical thinking does not allow for prayer(s).  Praying never accomplished anything.  Ever. 

Even if we take away the God element from it, prayer can never amount to anything more than 'wishful' thinking.

Wishful thinking  ≠  Critical thinking.

You're making a big mistake by conflating prayer and critical thinking.  It has nothing whatsoever to to with libertarianism.

It's time for you to back down on this silly notion, Burns.  Really. 

Think about it, won't you?  Critically, I mean.   Wink


Geezuz fking krist chief, you've gone and opened the door for burnsred by saying something stupid that doesn't even pertain to his claim. That is:

You said: Quote:
Praying never accomplished anything.  Ever. 


Wrong you asshole! Praying accomplishes a lot for believers. Can you think of some ways it does before you get your ass kicked around the block again?


  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #15 - May 21st, 2018 at 2:04pm
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Geezuz fking krist chief, you've gone and opened the door for burnsred by saying something stupid that doesn't even pertain to his claim.

Praying accomplishes a lot for believers. Can you think of some ways it does before you get your ass kicked around the block again?

Praying never results in any consequential outcome for a given event.  That's the point I was making.

If there's a drought somewhere, and 25% of the people pray for rain,  how much more rain will they get?

How much rain will they get if 90% of the people prayed for rain?   Or 100%?

Set aside your emotions for a moment and Think, Don_G.    Smiley
  
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Snarky Sack
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #16 - May 21st, 2018 at 2:28pm
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SnarkySack wrote Today at 12:57pm:
Quote:
It is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate to pray for and whether his or her particular prayers fit in with that definition.  How could one think any more critically than that?


SkyChief wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 1:22pm:
Critical thinking does not allow for prayer(s).  Praying never accomplished anything.  Ever. 


Really?  So you can guarantee that never, not one single time, has a person had an inspiration while in the act of praying that helped them to solve a problem?   Never has a person prayed for God to give them strength to do something and then realized that they already had the strength and only had to use it?  Never has anyone prayed for a solution of a problem and thought of the solution while praying?  How in the world can you know for a fact that this has never and will never happen?

Quote:
Even if we take away the God element from it, prayer can never amount to anything more than 'wishful' thinking. 

Wishful thinking  ≠  Critical thinking.

You're making a big mistake by conflating prayer and critical thinking.  It has nothing whatsoever to to with libertarianism.

It's time for you to back down on this silly notion, Burns.  Really. 

Think about it, won't you?  Critically, I mean.   Wink


I have thought very critically about it.  It is you who are not addressing the points I make and instead simply repeating your argument that amounts to 'praying is stoopid."

Start with the obvious:  how can it not be critical thinking to ponder what is and is not appropriate to pray for?

I suspect your first reflex thought will be, "because it's all BS, anyway!"  Fine.  Now that you've had your first thought, time to think critically . . .






  

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Don_G
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #17 - May 21st, 2018 at 2:32pm
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ahhell wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 1:00pm:
The ridicule of "thoughts and prayer"  lately seems mostly directed at the conservatives who offer their thoughts and prayers when there's a mass shooting but those same conservatives oppose most new gun control legislation.  So, to the pro-control crowd, its especially hollow to offer prayer in lieu of actual legislation that might prevent deaths.

Which is totally understandable.



Yes, the reference to 'thoughts and prayers' is directly related to the shooting (s).

It's quite a novel idea out of burnsred's head that the 'critical thinking' part of it is in the people who pray are separating that which can be legitimately asked of their god and that which shouldn't be asked for in prayer!

The 'creative thinking' about that is thinking that whopper up!  Embarrassed

burnsred says: Quote:
how can it not be critical thinking to ponder what is and is not appropriate to pray for?


Now that we're all well into this bullshit, somebody should ask him for an example!
  
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Don_G
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #18 - May 21st, 2018 at 2:50pm
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SkyChief wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Praying never results in any consequential outcome for a given event.  That's the point I was making.

If there's a drought somewhere, and 25% of the people pray for rain,  how much more rain will they get?

How much rain will they get if 90% of the people prayed for rain?   Or 100%?

Set aside your emotions for a moment and Think, Don_G.    Smiley


There ya go Chief. Just like I predicted, burnsred has kicked your ass in his #16.

And you've got yourself stuck on trying to prove to me that praying never brought rain.

Like a fking gatepost Chief, you never disappoint!
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Why Statists Ridicule "thoughts and prayers."
Reply #19 - May 21st, 2018 at 3:46pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 2:28pm:
SnarkySack wrote Today at 12:57pm:
Really?  So you can guarantee that never, not one single time, has a person had an inspiration while in the act of praying that helped them to solve a problem?   Never has a person prayed for God to give them strength to do something and then realized that they already had the strength and only had to use it?  Never has anyone prayed for a solution of a problem and thought of the solution while praying?  How in the world can you know for a fact that this has never and will never happen?

Praying to gods doesn't solve problems. Some people might  think it gives them inspiration, but inspiration is subjective and non-tangible. What you might find "inspiring" I might consider absurd.

Prayer is never a part of critical thinking. That's my claim. 


Snarky Sack wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 2:28pm:
I have thought very critically about it.  It is you who are not addressing the points I make and instead simply repeating your argument that amounts to 'praying is stoopid."

I never said praying is stoopid. I said it doesn't result in any consequential outcome of an event.

You're very emotional, and not thinking clearly. 

Snarky Sack wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Start with the obvious:  how can it not be critical thinking to ponder what is and is not appropriate to pray for?

oh dear.   

Reason, Logic, and empirical evidence - these are components of critical thinking.  The method allows us to solve problems - to take a proper, sensible course of action when necessary.

Prayer is purely spiritual, and can should never be considered a part of problem-solving.   
  
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