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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) War Powers Act Doesn't Work (Read 1907 times)
Don_G
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #30 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 12:39pm
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The trouble is Craig Sickler, you're all over the map with 'social responsibilities'. Your great smack down of Ruby on the treatment of immigrants is only one example of how you're only arguing against your better self.
  
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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #31 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 3:43pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:02am:
Right.  That's why small local charities, large national and world charities, the United Way, churches and other such organizations all have to use guns to get people to give money.  Because no one wants to be the first to donate. 
It's rather different. People donate to charities because they believe the charities they choose will do specific things they want to have done, and that their money will be well spent. They see, or think they see, a direct connection that will serve a personal cause.

When it comes to donating to pay off the debts of the government, people see no personal connection between their giving and any goal that's important to them. The government is supposed to serve everyone, so everyone should pay for it is probably a good approximation of how most people feel... Either that or, "If I can get the government to serve me without me paying for it, I win!"

The basic problem is that a government is not a charity engaged in specific good works. At the end of the Revolutionary War, most Americans saw no evidence of national government in their own lives and didn't want to. People are often very short sighted. They are willing to wait until foreign warships are stopping their ships and impressing their sailors... Then they clamor for the government to "do something" specifically for them.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #32 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 7:22pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 3:43pm:
It's rather different. People donate to charities because they believe the charities they choose will do specific things they want to have done, and that their money will be well spent. They see, or think they see, a direct connection that will serve a personal cause.

When it comes to donating to pay off the debts of the government, people see no personal connection between their giving and any goal that's important to them.


Then why in the world would the government they elect and pay to represent them steal their money for a goal that isn't important to them?  How is that liberty?

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The government is supposed to serve everyone, so everyone should pay for it is probably a good approximation of how most people feel... Either that or, "If I can get the government to serve me without me paying for it, I win!"

The basic problem is that a government is not a charity engaged in specific good works. At the end of the Revolutionary War, most Americans saw no evidence of national government in their own lives and didn't want to. People are often very short sighted. They are willing to wait until foreign warships are stopping their ships and impressing their sailors... Then they clamor for the government to "do something" specifically for them.


Exactly.  So the government must do the wise thing for the good of the people who are shortsighted and spend the money they earn and the wealth they create on foolish wants instead of needs.  That is your attitude which is why you are a statist and not a libertarian.

As I will show conclusively in another thread, if you advocate statism (as you do), you should advocate doing it right which is the early stages of the Nazi regime in Germany (which I do not advocate, but you and other statists should).

  

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Don_G
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #33 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 7:34pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
Then why in the world would the government they elect and pay to represent them steal their money for a goal that isn't important to them?  How is that liberty?


Exactly.  So the government must do the wise thing for the good of the people who are shortsighted and spend the money they earn and the wealth they create on foolish wants instead of needs.  That is your attitude which is why you are a statist and not a libertarian.

As I will show conclusively in another thread, if you advocate statism (as you do), you should advocate doing it right which is the early stages of the Nazi regime in Germany (which I do not advocate, but you and other statists should).



Burnsred, he's not a statist at all. Your attitude of pretending to be able to teach him something is causing him to take an unsensible position on a lot of issues.

Work on Ruby instead and you will get the best of Craig as he sets Ruby straight. Ruby is the only real statist on this board.

If you somehow think that's an undesirable trait then you should be shooting her down along with Craig.

Myself, as for being a statist or a non-statist, it's being exaggerated by wanna be pseudo-libertarians.

I mean fuk, they believe 911 was an inside job! 


  
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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #34 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:26pm
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Little Big Man wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 7:22pm:
Then why in the world would the government they elect and pay to represent them steal their money for a goal that isn't important to them?  How is that liberty?



You're right, that's tyranny.
  

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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #35 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:28pm
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Burnsred, he's not a statist at all. Your attitude of pretending to be able to teach him something is causing him to take an unsensible position on a lot of issues.


Name one. We can talk about why you think it's an "unsensible" position.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #36 - Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:05pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 8:28pm:
Name one. We can talk about why you think it's an "unsensible" position.



It's not unsensible.  It's un-libertarian.

Fascism (which you support) has internal logic, as I will soon demonstrate.

Once one accepts the premise that the state knows best (as you do) and that might makes right (as you do) Nazism naturally follows.

As I will prove in an upcoming thread.

Stay tuned!
  

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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #37 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:32am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jun 5th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
It's not unsensible.  It's un-libertarian.

Fascism (which you support) has internal logic, as I will soon demonstrate.

Once one accepts the premise that the state knows best (as you do) and that might makes right (as you do) Nazism naturally follows.

As I will prove in an upcoming thread.

Stay tuned!
I think the original Constitution, which strictly limits government and divides its powers was a wonderful idea, because it was designed to prevent any one faction or department of government from ever seizing control, i.e. to absolutely prevent a dictatorial government or a crony bureaucratic government.

You can say whatever you want about what you think I support, but I still support individual Liberty, individual Rights and a strictly limited government that protects those rights and liberties under equally applied laws.
  

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Little Big Man
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #38 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:07am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 7:32am:
I think the original Constitution, which strictly limits government and divides its powers was a wonderful idea, because it was designed to prevent any one faction or department of government from ever seizing control, i.e. to absolutely prevent a dictatorial government or a crony bureaucratic government.


Sure,  it was a great idea.. For that matter socialism was a great idea.  Are you kidding?  Everyone working for common goals and sharing the fruits of. Their labor equally?  Sounds wonderful. But socialism had the seeds of its own failure in the fact that people won’t work as hard for others as they do for themselves and that government attracts thieves, charlatons and second rafters so giving it that much power will always lead to disaster. 

The U.S. Constitution was first and foremost a way to give the central government far more power than the people who fought the revolution envisioned it having.  The fact that it made government more powerful guaranteed that it would act against the interests of its citizens as it did almost immediately in the first two years of the first presidency.  The enumerated powers and the separation of powers became a moot point as politicians followed or did not follow the limitations and separation as they saw fit.

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You can say whatever you want about what you think I support, but I still support individual Liberty, individual Rights and a strictly limited government that protects those rights and liberties under equally applied laws.


The only way to limit misuse of government power is to limit government power.  Ensure that they government is not only forbidden from but also physicallly unable to intrude in people’s lives.


  

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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #39 - Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:28am
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Little Big Man wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 8:07am:
The U.S. Constitution was first and foremost a way to give the central government far more power than the people who fought the revolution envisioned it having.
I disagree as you know.

The Constitution was designed to create a national government with a few limited enumerated powers that would enable it to protect the nation from foreign invasion, prevent trade wars between states, provide sound money and standardized weights and measures, foster communications between individuals, protect the Rights and Liberty of every individual equally etc.

The fact that most power, including almost all police power and the power of local and state courts and juries was left with the states, who also were given the power to choose Senators and keep their State Militias ensured that the new federal government would not become more powerful.

The States, through the Senators they appointed had a veto power over the Executive so the Executive could not raise armies or start wars.

The power to raise money was left at the discretion of the House of (the People's) Representatives.

A Supreme Court was created to make sure that neither the Executive or the Legislative branches could usurp power by misinterpreting the Constitution or passing laws outside the legitimate grants of power.

Every thing that could possibly be thought of was done to make sure the federal government would remain a limited servant and never become a master, but no, they didn't get it perfect.

Preserving the Blessings of Liberty was at the top of duties given to the new government.

The tax on distilled spirits was bad tax policy in hindsight, but it was not an attempt to create a tyranny, it was an honest attempt to pay back debts incurred during the War... Unless you see it as an Indirect tax that was not uniform because it singled out only a certain group of people based on the type of business they were in?

That was the "progressive" spirit at work, believing that distilled spirits caused a lot of problems in society and that taxing them would make them less likely to be bought and drunk and therefore to cause problems.

That's the root of "progressive" thought, that government policy and government action can make society better. It's a very seductive idea, and people at the time of the Revolution were not immune to it.
  

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