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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) War Powers Act Doesn't Work (Read 954 times)
Snarky Sack
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #60 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:29am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:48pm:
Yes, later on, in the Progressive Era, 'democrats' decided universal suffrage would bring us a better class of Representatives, but it hasn't.


To be fair, once you grant a central government the kind of broad and deep powers that ours has, the quality of the representatives isn't really the issue.

The  suffrage is in no way "universal," but when more than a tiny fraction of the people are allowed to vote it makes the claim that representatives are "sent by the people" slightly less absurd.
  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #61 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:32am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
You complained of "no enforcement mechanisms", now you change your complaint to  the enforcement methods not having been used.
If it's not used, what good is it?

Certainly there are well-used enforcement mechanisms for making sure our car windows aren't tinted "too darkly," why wouldn't enforcement of constitutional limits receive at least the same priority?

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As it turned out, the violations began to occur almost exclusively after the power of State governments to recall Senators was removed by the 17th Amendment. Another brilliant idea by "progressives" that would make America more 'democratic'.


As I said, they began to occur after the election of GW.

Blaming the removal of a power that had never been used is a little silly.
  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #62 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:33am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 1:55pm:
It would work in a time where the people recognized that the federal government was becoming tyrannical and they took Jefferson's advice and resorted to force of arms as a last resort to protect Liberty, the theory being that the State Militias would have more loyalty to the states they and their families lived in than to a federal government bent on tyranny.


The one and only time that happened was when Abraham Lincoln was elected without even being on the ballot on most southern states.  How'd that work out?
  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #63 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:37am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 2:03pm:
You are wrong. The Constitution grants the Courts jurisdiction in all cases arising under the Constitution.


It also gives congress the power to pass laws and the president the power to execute them.  Nowhere does it say that one branch can "over-rule" the other.

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To qoute Hamilton from Federalist #78-

"The complete independence of the courts of justice is peculiarly essential in a limited Constitution. By a limited Constitution, I understand one which contains certain specified exceptions to the legislative authority; such, for instance, as that it shall pass no bills of attainder, no ex-post-facto laws, and the like. Limitations of this kind can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without this, all the reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to nothing."



Your propensity to cite slaveholders as authorities on the subject of freedom still mystifying.  His federalist papers were a sales job and he obviously wrote that to cover for the fact that the Constitution provides no enforcement mechanism for a time when one branch violates the constitution.

It still doesn't as we saw when Obama "passed" the DREAM act over his own objection that he had not the power to do so.

  

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Snarky Sack
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #64 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:41am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 6th, 2018 at 2:13pm:
I won't accuse you of being ignorant of history, only of constantly spinning it from an anti-American point of view.


I'm anti-government taking freedom, not anti-American.  America is no better nor worse than any other randomly chosen section of the globe and people who happen to be born here no better or worse than people born anywhere else.  Give the people of North Korea real freedom and they would soon be wealthy producers, outpacing nations who continue to grow their governments. 

Patriotism is the last bastion of the statist losing an argument.

  

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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #65 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:30am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:37am:
It also gives congress the power to pass laws and the president the power to execute them.  Nowhere does it say that one branch can "over-rule" the other.
An unconstitutional law is an illegal law, and the Courts have been given jurisdiction to determine if laws are within the granted powers of Congress, or not. The idea is to make the Courts a last bulwark to prevent encroachment on our Liberty.
  
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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #66 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:43am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:37am:
Your propensity to cite slaveholders as authorities on the subject of freedom still mystifying.  His federalist papers were a sales job and he obviously wrote that to cover for the fact that the Constitution provides no enforcement mechanism for a time when one branch violates the constitution.

It still doesn't as we saw when Obama "passed" the DREAM act over his own objection that he had not the power to do so.

The fact that the Courts don't always do the job they are assigned to do is something that can't ever be completely eliminated.

That Supreme Court Justices would ever be chosen based on political ideologies would horrify the Founders of America. It horrifies libertarians, especially when they see the Court making political decisions to aid further usurpation of power by the Executive and Congress.

Blame "progressives".

FDR politicized the Supreme Court in order to get them to wrongly claim that the commerce clause is a grant of general power to Congress so that the New Deal could be put in place as "law".

BTW, before "progressives" made the Constitution more 'democratic', the enforcement mechanisms were all in place and Congress and the President actually heeded the Supreme Court's decisions. There weren't many cases brought before the Court regarding usurpation of power prior to the Progressive Era, and even FDR felt compelled to threaten the Court rather than ignore them when they originally declared most of his New Deal unconstitutional.

Edit: The reason the New Deal was originally declared unconstitutional was that the Constitution granted Congress no power to control the economy. It was only by declaring the commerce clause to be a grant of general power (something it had never previously been held to be and that the Framers promised didn't exist in the Constitution) that the New Deal was 'authorized'.
  
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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #67 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 8:03am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 6:29am:
To be fair, once you grant a central government the kind of broad and deep powers that ours has, the quality of the representatives isn't really the issue.

The  suffrage is in no way "universal," but when more than a tiny fraction of the people are allowed to vote it makes the claim that representatives are "sent by the people" slightly less absurd.
The quality of Representatives is always important, but even more important when those Representatives have more power.

Rather than saying that Representatives are "sent by the people", think of it as Representatives being chosen by qualified voters to represent their District.

That is what they are obligated to do, whether everyone who lives in their district is qualified to vote or not, they are sent to Washington to represent their District.

The original theory of the State governments (who controlled who was allowed to vote) was that by allowing only responsible citizens who had a real stake in their communities to vote, better Representatives would be chosen to represent their communities.

If a Representative's District is made up mostly of people who don't work and have never worked and own no property in the District, and everyone is allowed to vote, it's not likely they will elect a "better" Representative, or even a good Representative. They will elect someone who will work hard to perpetuate the "welfare" state, which has not been proven to be good for anyone except bureaucrats and politicians.

This seems to be what "progressives" want... Cry
  
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Dong
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #68 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 1:14pm
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Beside the usual bickering over who won the civil war, an important point has been mentioned.

The law that regulates how darkly tinted a windshield can be. This is another sensible regulation that keeps us safe.

The libertarians would tend to have tinted windshields so darkly tinted that they would cause even more accidents when they ignore stop signs.

Insurance rates would skyrocket and the people would begin to ask for regulated insurance run by their government. Then government would eliminate the darkly tinted windshields and jail libertarians who didn't comply with the law.

Which would then overload the jails more.

And so on and so on.

Libertarians coiuld sit in jail and look out their windows, if US jails have such things, and think about their rights and freedoms!
  
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Jeff
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Re: War Powers Act Doesn't Work
Reply #69 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 2:12pm
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Quote:
Beside the usual bickering over who won the civil war, an important point has been mentioned.

The law that regulates how darkly tinted a windshield can be. This is another sensible regulation that keeps us safe.

The libertarians would tend to have tinted windshields so darkly tinted that they would cause even more accidents when they ignore stop signs.

Insurance rates would skyrocket and the people would begin to ask for regulated insurance run by their government. Then government would eliminate the darkly tinted windshields and jail libertarians who didn't comply with the law.

Which would then overload the jails more.

And so on and so on.

Libertarians coiuld sit in jail and look out their windows, if US jails have such things, and think about their rights and freedoms!
But there's no law saying how dark your sunglasses can be.

If you cause an accident, for whatever reason, you are liable for the damage you cause, that's the libertarian position Dink. No need for a thousand laws prohibiting this that and the other thing while driving.

If you can't trust people to be responsible while they are operating potentially lethal machinery, no amount of laws will change anything. Luckily, most people can be trusted, although I think "progressive" schooling that fails to teach individual responsibility is making things worse.


  
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