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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Austria Closing Mosques (Read 998 times)
thermf5
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #30 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 2:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 2:45pm:
I'm sure that has something to do with why you are alone all the time.

Do what you want, but I don't think your going to succeed in creating a totally repugnant culture without force...

You want to create another North Korea?

no i want to create a island where lucky's dream of Cuba can be real
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #31 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:01pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 8:50pm:
Libertarianism supports every world view you have, you just have to interpret it better than they do.

Smiley


The Opposition wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 8:50pm:
They don't get to protect themselves under libertarian philosophy, not even from a direct threat like political Islam. Libertarianism protects those mosques like a magic cloak.

This is precisely why libertarianism can't work in a large society.

Extremist ideologues ruin it for everyone.
  
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thermf5
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #32 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:14pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
Smiley


This is precisely why libertarianism can't work in a large society.

Extremist ideologues ruin it for everyone.   

so what would be ur population range and land size that it would work in
  
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #33 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 4:17pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 8:42am:
The lizard thinks libertarian philosophy is Rothbard at his most anarchic and the NAP, and it constantly tries to muddle up the meaning of 'aggression'.


My insistence is that putting people off property they bought in a voluntary transaction is aggression. Dispute that or shut the Hell up.

Jeff wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 8:42am:
Rational people think having radicalized Turkish Islamists invading their country is aggression.

Rational people understand that in a world of nation states mostly governed by authoritarians, some of who have plans for empires and religious empires, it is necessary to have a nation state of your own, so that your liberty will be protected.


Necessary does not mean right.

It might be necessary to steal to keep yourself alive. It's still wrong, and it's still aggression.

SkyChief wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
This is precisely why libertarianism can't work in a large society.

Extremist ideologues ruin it for everyone.   


Correct. It's nice to have the NAP if everyone is interested in liberty. The NAP is also immensely exploitable by groups that wish to destroy liberty.

This is not some weird "Opposition's interpretation of the NAP" - this is the NAP.

You can't put people off their property that they bought in a voluntary transaction. That's aggression.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #34 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 4:40pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
This is precisely why libertarianism can't work in a large society.

Extremist ideologues ruin it for everyone.   
So you recommend what for governing "large" societies? Tyranny?

What if the Tyrant is an extremist ideologue like Stalin?

You want to take the chance?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #35 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 5:57pm
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thermf5 wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 3:14pm:
so what would be ur population range and land size that [libertarianism] would work in

Lemme put it this way:

The smaller the population, the better.  The more acreage per person, the better. 

In confined/high-density areas, such as inner cities, naturally there's more chance of one person encroaching on the rights of another, even though no malice was intended.

Barking dogs would be a classic example of this.  That's why most densely populated cities have barking dog ordinances.  Highly anti-libertarian, but very necessary.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #36 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 6:41pm
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Barking dogs would be a classic example of this.  That's why most densely populated cities have barking dog ordinances.  Highly anti-libertarian, but very necessary.


So, to live in a libertarian society, we must allow our neighbor's dog to bark all night long?  What about my right to peace?  What if your neighbor wants to keep his pet lion in his backyard right next to where your kids play?  Would it be un-libertarian to have a law about that?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #37 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 7:12pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 6:41pm:
So, to live in a libertarian society, we must allow our neighbor's dog to bark all night long? 

Yes. 

This is why I told thermf5 that libertarianism fails in large populations and/or high-density areas.

If your neighbor with the barking dog lived a quarter mile away, the dog is just as noisy, but you can't hear it -  so your right to peace and quiet has not been violated. 

RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 6:41pm:
What about my right to peace?  What if your neighbor wants to keep his pet lion in his backyard right next to where your kids play?  Would it be un-libertarian to have a law about that?

Yes, it would.  But my point is, there ARE laws about barking dogs and keeping lions as pets.

21 states ban all dangerous exotic pets (incl. lions)  ALL states have barking-dog laws.

It is highly un-libertarian.  But necessary.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #38 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 7:12pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Lemme put it this way:

The smaller the population, the better.  The more acreage per person, the better. 

In confined/high-density areas, such as inner cities, naturally there's more chance of one person encroaching on the rights of another, even though no malice was intended.

People throughout human history have chosen to live in towns and cities because they perceive benefits. People who don't want to live in cities because they feel "confined" can live where land is cheaper and people are thinly scattered.

Encroachment on the rights of others is best prevented by educating children. Teach them to respect the rights of others.

As a last resort, good policing helps.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #39 - Jun 10th, 2018 at 7:15pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 10th, 2018 at 6:41pm:
So, to live in a libertarian society, we must allow our neighbor's dog to bark all night long?  What about my right to peace?  What if your neighbor wants to keep his pet lion in his backyard right next to where your kids play?  Would it be un-libertarian to have a law about that?


Local communities should decide these sorts of things. Some places have barking dog ordinances, some don't.

We don't need Federal Regulations to cover these situations as Dork insists.

In places where there are no ordinances, the Common Law serves well... File a complaint and let a jury decide.

Talk to your neighbor first of course. It's courteous to talk first before filing a complaint, and courts usually want to know if you tried talking first.
  
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