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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Austria Closing Mosques (Read 1449 times)
thermf5
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #60 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:53am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 12th, 2018 at 2:05pm:
Oh bullshit.  The law frees people from not having to fear being attacked by a lion.  If you can't allow your children to play outside, how is that freedom?

do what thro will is the hole of the law u forceing some to have or not have something is a volition of there freedom
  
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #61 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 9:29am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 1:42am:
Ruby is correct, but only because there is a right to own a gun, but there exists no such right to own a lion.

It's all about rights - which ones there are, and which ones there aren't. Safety, freedom... These things don't come into it.
Theories of General Liberty say you are free to own any sort of animal you choose to own as well as saying that you have a Right to defend yourself and to freely choose the means of self defense that you think will serve you best.

No theory that I know of says that free people must give up being safe.

A theory of general liberty does not give any individual the Right to do things that endanger others. Some of our statute laws come from this. You can't legally drive your car at 100 mph through a residential neighborhood, because it's unsafe; But not all statute laws designed to limit reckless or endangering behavior are perfectly designed or perfectly enforced, and some of the laws that claim to make us safe actually make us less safe.

The Common law has proven to be very useful in societies that operate under theories of General Liberty.

State and local ordinances regarding the keeping of animals generally arose from complaints at Common Law. Where there are no applicable ordinances, you can complain that your neighbor is keeping a lion in a manner that makes it a dangerous nuisance. Maybe the court will agree with you, or maybe not.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #62 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 9:57am
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thermf5, our freedoms end where other people's freedoms begin.  We know that lions cannot be fully tamed, and there is no real benefit to keeping them as pets.  There is a real negative in that they can and will attack people without warning, and neighbors will reasonably fear them.  No one is going to feel good about letting their children play outside if they think there's a chance a lion will break loose and attack them.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #63 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 10:03am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 9:57am:
thermf5, our freedoms end where other people's freedoms begin.  We know that lions cannot be fully tamed, and there is no real benefit to keeping them as pets.  There is a real negative in that they can and will attack people without warning, and neighbors will reasonably fear them.  No one is going to feel good about letting their children play outside if they think there's a chance a lion will break loose and attack them.
Some bulls are like that too Ruby, especially bulls from breeds of cows bred for milk. The owners of those sorts of bulls are responsible for keeping them under control, and they do.

You wouldn't want one in an urban neighborhood even if it was kept secure, because they draw flies and stink the place up... But so do dumpsters.

Just saying, there aren't one size fits all solutions.
  
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thermf5
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #64 - Jun 13th, 2018 at 7:28pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 13th, 2018 at 9:57am:
thermf5, our freedoms end where other people's freedoms begin.  We know that lions cannot be fully tamed, and there is no real benefit to keeping them as pets.  There is a real negative in that they can and will attack people without warning, and neighbors will reasonably fear them.  No one is going to feel good about letting their children play outside if they think there's a chance a lion will break loose and attack them.

i want to live in a sosidty  where everyone fears everyone there for ur arument is null and void
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #65 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 12:11pm
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Jeff, a farm is a good place for a bull, the city is not.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #66 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 1:57pm
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Jeff has argued the opposite when I said I had a right to own a tiger. He's full of shit. There are about eighteen pages somewhere of back and forth about whether endangering someone recklessly is aggression.

There is no right to own a dangerous animal. It's true that it's not aggression until the animal attacks, but in libertarian theory, you can take the lion owner to civil court for endangerment and you'd surely win that. They would end up having to get rid of their lion.

I have a quote from Skychief to that point. It's hard to get one from Jeff because he never states anything as an affirmative - he just plays both sides. This was after I called libertarians selfish for discovering the rights they want, and not the rights others want.

SkyChief wrote on Dec 1st, 2017 at 1:26pm:
The reason(s) for owning a gun is quite different than the reason to own a tiger or a chicken.   I'm saddened to be labeled a rabid, selfish, maniac.

There is only one absolute right that each and every person on the planet has:   self-defense.    All living things have a right to self-defense.  Tigers have it - even chickens have it.  (If you've ever witnessed a cockfight, you have seen self-defense of chickens)

If government were to ban guns, it would take away our means of self-defense, and that would be immoral.   If government were to ban (ownership of) tigers, no rights were violated - it is not immoral.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #67 - Jun 14th, 2018 at 2:23pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 14th, 2018 at 1:57pm:
Jeff has argued the opposite when I said I had a right to own a tiger. He's full of shit. There are about eighteen pages somewhere of back and forth about whether endangering someone recklessly is aggression.

There is no right to own a dangerous animal.
Yes there is, but you are obligated to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong, and communities of people are empowered under any reasonable system of government to decide that there is too much risk in some things, like building munitions factories in residential neighborhoods.

Some communities are more tolerant of such risks than others. If you want to have a lion as a pet, move somewhere rural where people are accustomed to living around dangerous animals.

Reckless endangerment is illegal, but the determination should be made on a case by case basis and as locally as possible, because not everybody agrees on what constitutes reckless endangerment.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #68 - Jun 15th, 2018 at 11:54am
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I'm for lions being banned all together as pets.  Fine to have them in a zoo or sanctuary, but why have them as a pet when they can turn on you?  Look what happened to Seigfeld and Roy with one of their tigers.  Its possible kids will be killed because of some idiot parents who had to have an exotic wild animal.  It's not like you can't get a pet that it tame and therefore not dangerous.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Austria Closing Mosques
Reply #69 - Jun 15th, 2018 at 1:58pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 15th, 2018 at 11:54am:
I'm for lions being banned all together as pets.  Fine to have them in a zoo or sanctuary, but why have them as a pet when they can turn on you?  Look what happened to Seigfeld and Roy with one of their tigers.  Its possible kids will be killed because of some idiot parents who had to have an exotic wild animal.  It's not like you can't get a pet that it tame and therefore not dangerous.
Idiot parent's kill plenty of kids in cars because they do idiot things instead of paying attention to their driving.
  
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