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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism (Read 1077 times)
Snarky Sack
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Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:14am
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Those on here who are both Darwinian evolutionists and libertarians (I see no conflict at all), I have a few questions:

1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?

2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that statism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under statism already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of libertarianism?

Similar questions for Darwinian evolutionist statists:


1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?

2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that libertarianism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under freedom already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of statism? 

PS:  I know that I was discussing evolution with some of you in a thread I've lost track of.  If there are any replies you've been waiting for me to reply to, link me and I'll try to oblige.
  

"I think I'll backtrack." - Jeff
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Jeff
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 8:38am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:14am:
Those on here who are both Darwinian evolutionists and libertarians (I see no conflict at all), I have a few questions:

1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?

2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that statism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under statism already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of libertarianism?

Similar questions for Darwinian evolutionist statists:


1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?

2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that libertarianism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under freedom already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of statism? 

PS:  I know that I was discussing evolution with some of you in a thread I've lost track of.  If there are any replies you've been waiting for me to reply to, link me and I'll try to oblige.
1) Who cares?

2)Quite a few mammals are well adapted to life in water. There are even theories that humans at one time early in our evolution were adapted to live in water.

The way I understand it, living organisms sometimes change to try to adapt to changing environments. Sometimes they succeed  and sometimes they die out.

Most of the people in the Soviet Union (at least the one's who weren't killed-https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/08/russian-museum-discovers-secret-or...) "adapted" to living under a statist government. Some of them even preferred it to liberty (although they had never been free, so you can forgive them for not knowing any better).

Most of the people in the new United States of America (the ones who weren't driven off to Canada or other Colonies) "adapted" very well to being free.

I have no doubt that over a long enough period of time, people forced to live under tyrannical governments would become different than people who are free.

Maybe, over a long enough time, people who were forcibly tyrannized would learn to love it, but I think they would no longer be human at that point.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 10:15am
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:14am:
1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?

The fact that there are disparities in IQ among different races is powerful evidence in support of evolutionary theory.  Like Darwin's finches - the birds had developed distinctive traits on separate islands that were only a few kilometers away.  A person's intellect depends on his environment.  A stupid person can survive/function just fine in a city where everything he needs is readily available.

In the Arctic, or in the desert, stupid people usually die.

Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:14am:
2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that statism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under statism already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of libertarianism?

No. Political Theory is not evolutionary any more than religion is.  It's a belief system which is adopted by a person within a society

A child who grows up in Yemen follows Sharia Law - libertarianism would never make any sense to this child.

A child who grows up in Prescott, Arizona understands liberty and freedom.  Sharia Law would never make any sense to him.
  
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Dong
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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Snarky Sack wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 7:14am:
Those on here who are both Darwinian evolutionists and libertarians (I see no conflict at all), I have a few questions:

1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?


There is no disparity in IQ among people of different races!That is pure racist thinking!

Quote:
2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that statism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under statism already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of libertarianism?


There is no perceivable morality in libertarianism to begin with. It's a contradiction to morality.

Quote:
Similar questions for Darwinian evolutionist statists:


1 - How does evolutionary theory explain the disparity in IQ among people of different races?


Same answer as above.

Quote:
2 - Is it possible that humans could evolve in such a way that libertarianism is best for us?  I mean in the same way that dolphins evolved so that living in the sea is best for them even though few other mammals could thrive in those conditions.  Is the evolution of humanity into a species that thrives best under freedom already happening?  If it does happen, will that change the morality of statism? 


Same answer plus, libertarianism provides freedom for a few at the expense of the masses.

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PS:  I know that I was discussing evolution with some of you in a thread I've lost track of.  If there are any replies you've been waiting for me to reply to, link me and I'll try to oblige.


You could only impart wrong answers to religious believers who might accept them. I can't wait!
  
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Dong
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 12:53pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
The fact that there are disparities in IQ among different races is powerful evidence in support of evolutionary theory. Like Darwin's finches - the birds had developed distinctive traits on separate islands that were only a few kilometers away.  A person's intellect depends on his environment.  A stupid person can survive/function just fine in a city where everything he needs is readily available.



Wrong!

Then you go on to state that it's wrong, except your understanding of evolution isn't developed to the point at which you understand.

The fact is, you could take a person of any race and raise him in an environment that could cause him/her to equal or exceed the average IQ of that population.

Good job of opening your cakehole before your brain kicked in racist!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 1:49pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 10:15am:
No. Political Theory is not evolutionary any more than religion is.  It's a belief system which is adopted by a person within a society

I disagree Chief. Religions and political theories have changed. People who grew up under Kings thought of better ways and tried them, they just didn't automatically adopt the theory of the Divine Right of Kings.

People who grew up in a Jewish society became Christians, and Christianity developed in many different ways in different places and over time. The Protestant Reformation changed the ideas of Roman Catholics.

Call it an evolution of ideas. It happens in fields of science too. People are constantly getting new ideas or changing old ideas.
  
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Dong
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #6 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 1:49pm:
I disagree Chief. Religions and political theories have changed. People who grew up under Kings thought of better ways and tried them, they just didn't automatically adopt the theory of the Divine Right of Kings.

People who grew up in a Jewish society became Christians, and Christianity developed in many different ways in different places and over time. The Protestant Reformation changed the ideas of Roman Catholics.

Call it an evolution of ideas. It happens in fields of science too. People are constantly getting new ideas or changing old ideas.


The Chief's right Craig. You're thinking in terms of genetics or genes evolving and you should be thinking in terms of 'memes' evolving.

Religious superstitions are evolving toward being ignored in favour of science.

The Chief might not understand why he's right but that doesn't make him not right.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #7 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 4:04pm
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The Chief's right Craig. You're thinking in terms of genetics or genes evolving...
Right now I'm thinking of not reading any further... Farther. Whichever is correct.
  
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Dong
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #8 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 4:04pm:
Right now I'm thinking of not reading any further... Farther. Whichever is correct.


Have another drink asshole, you're almost ready to go on your roll.

The important point right now is burnsred's racist remark on different races being capable of differing IQs.

If he's not careful how he's pushes that idea he might get reported for saying it. It's blatant racism of course, and it's likely all intended to make that point. I think burnsred has tried to disguise it as something to do with statism vs. liber........
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Darwinian Evolution and Libertarianism v. Statism
Reply #9 - Jun 9th, 2018 at 4:30pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 9th, 2018 at 1:49pm:
People who grew up in a Jewish society became Christians, and Christianity developed in many different ways in different places and over time. The Protestant Reformation changed the ideas of Roman Catholics.

Call it an evolution of ideas. It happens in fields of science too. People are constantly getting new ideas or changing old ideas.
Nope. Sorry Jeff.  I wont permit you equate religion with science.   There are ZERO similarities between spiritual god beliefs and scientific knowledge. Its apples and oranges basketballs.

The god that people worshipped two thousand years ago is exactly the same god worshipped today.  He still walks on water, still raises people from the dead, and he still makes virgins pregnant with "divine" insemination.

People of science know that none of these things are possible.

You could argue that Political Theory can evolve, but Lockean libertarianism is still basically the same as modern [post-1950s] libertarianism - based on the natural rights and liberties of the individual.
  
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