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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy (Read 1921 times)
Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #30 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:37pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2018 at 7:36pm:
Income tax is theft. 
I agree that taxing wages and salaries as "incomes" is unconstitutional/illegal/theft, but that's all.

Taxing incomes is Constitutional, as long as it conforms to the rule of uniformity for all Indirect taxes.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #31 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:40pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2018 at 10:01pm:
Jimmy, the thing that makes the story newsworthy is that Melania is the wife of the man who made the Zero-Tolerance policy in the first place.

Do you know what you are saying?

Do you have some strange and dangerous idea that Presidential policy controls the law?

Did Obama set that precedent?


  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #32 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:43pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 18th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Only US Citizens have the "right" to vote in this country.
We've talked about this. Because voting is not possibly a natural right, it is in fact a privilege, and that's how libertarians talk about it, so as to avoid confusion between granted privileges and actual rights.
  
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #33 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:56pm
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Quote:
An hour ago, Trump signed an executive order that will end the policy of separating immigrant families.


No doubt those on the left are disappointed.
  
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #34 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:57pm
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Jeff, what are natural rights and why isn't voting one of them?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #35 - Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:09pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
Do you know what you are saying?

Do you have some strange and dangerous idea that Presidential policy controls the law?

Did Obama set that precedent?

No. Obama did not set this precedent.  It was actually FDR - he was the first US president to issue an Executive Order  [March 6th, 1933]

An Executive Order is a rule or order issued by the president to an executive branch of the government (in this case it would be ICE and the Border Patrol) and having the force of law.

Earlier today, Trump signed an executive order that will end the policy of separating immigrant families.

In Trump's own [odd and awkward] words:

"We're signing an Executive Order - I consider to be a very important Executive Order - it's about keeping families together, while at the same time insure that we have a very POWERFUL - a very STRONG border.  And border security will be equal if not greater than previously.  So, we're going to have strong - VERY STRONG borders, but we're going to to keep those families together.   I didn't like the sight or the feeling of families being separated - none of us like to see families separated."
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #36 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 6:45am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:56pm:
No doubt those on the left are disappointed.
It's not solved. Trump's order contains rational talk like "if possible" and "if enough facilities exist" etc.

And then there's this-

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/20/17484546/executive-order-family-separation-flores-...
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #37 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 7:06am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 4:57pm:
Jeff, what are natural rights and why isn't voting one of them?
https://www.libertarianism.org/encyclopedia/rights-natural

Voting can't be derived from anything except the human created institution of representative government; Without a created government that allows voting, there is no voting for representatives or officials; In the sense of a vote being the exercise of a political franchise, it doesn't exist until a government has been created.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #38 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 12:57pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:09pm:
An Executive Order is a rule or order issued by the president to an executive branch of the government (in this case it would be ICE and the Border Patrol) and having the force of law.
The President has the power to order his direct employees to do things the way he sees fit within the law.

If Congress enacts and a President signs a bill, it becomes the law, and the President is obligated to act to enforce it with the means the law has given him.

Congress has passed, and Presidents have signed, immigration laws, which are the law and must be enforced by the executive unless and until they are altered or abolished.

Executive orders do not have" the force of law".

They are orders from an executive to his employees, and both the executive and his employees remain bound by law.

The President cannot legally order the IRS to stop collecting taxes from registered Republicans, and IRS employees would be acting outside the law if they did so, even in the face of an Executive Order that told them to stop collecting taxes from registered Republicans.
  
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Jeff
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Re: 1st Lady Melania Speaks Out Against Zero Tolerance Immigration Policy
Reply #39 - Jun 21st, 2018 at 12:59pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 21st, 2018 at 7:06am:
https://www.libertarianism.org/encyclopedia/rights-natural

Voting can't be derived from anything except the human created institution of representative government; Without a created government that allows voting, there is no voting for representatives or officials; In the sense of a vote being the exercise of a political franchise, it doesn't exist until a government has been created.
Perhaps this contains something that gives a better idea of natural rights-

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-libertarianism

The key point, to me anyway, is that if you believe I have no natural right to liberty etc., the burden is on you to explain why not.
  
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