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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Communist Booted Out Of Military (Read 637 times)
Jeff
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #40 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 6:55am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 22nd, 2018 at 10:38pm:
From the book, The Libertarian Mind:


This is from the book I'm reading by David Boaz, he wrote the article, Jeff, which you posted a link to:

Key Concepts of Libertarianism
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/key-concepts-libertarianism
Yes of course, but from a practical standpoint,  providing everyone with the maximum of individual liberty possible can arguably be best accomplished by restricting the privilege of voting.

Universal manhood suffrage was pushed 100 years ago by socialists and social democrats and other "progressives", just as was female suffrage.

It's not difficult to see a connection between universal suffrage and the growth of social welfare states around the world, and as you know, social welfare states restrict liberty.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #41 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 8:15am
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Jeff, David Boaz gives credit to libertarianism for women gaining their freedom.  Individuals, which includes women, being free to participate in politics is a libertarian principle.  Denying that freedom to women is anti-libertarian.

Also, the author clearly shows that freedom was in decline BEFORE women got the right to vote. 

Quote:
Toward the end of the nineteenth century, classical liberalism began to give way to new forms of collectivism and state power.

Socialism, especially the Marxist variety, came along, with a whole new theory to develop, and attracted younger intellectuals.

By the turn of the century the remaining liberals despaired of the future.

Indeed, as liberals had feared, the century of European peace that began in 1815 came crashing down in 1914, with the First World War.  The replacement of liberalism by statism and nationalism was in large part to blame, and the war itself may have delivered the death-blow to liberalism.  In the United States and Europe, governments enlarged their scope and power in response to the war.  Exorbitant taxation, conscription, censorship, nationalization, and central planning...
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #42 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 9:08am
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There was greatly restricted liberty way before universal suffrage.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #43 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 6:34pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 8:15am:
Jeff, David Boaz gives credit to libertarianism for women gaining their freedom.  Individuals, which includes women, being free to participate in politics is a libertarian principle.
At the most Ruby, it's a policy. It's been in effect for 100 years in America. That means there is a ton of empirical evidence that can be evaluated to see if it worked, if human liberty advanced measurably after women started voting. Roll Eyes

I think its an interesting scientific question...

Maybe we could get a grant! Grin

It's a libertarian principle to look for the best ways to guarantee liberty for the most people by the simple expedient of limiting the power of government.

What a great idea!
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #44 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 7:43pm
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Denying government the ability to keep women from voting was about women having equal freedom, nothing more.  It was a big step forward for freedom.  We don't deny freedom to groups of people in order to gain it.  Don't blame women for lack of freedom.  Both genders support big government, though in slightly different ways.  Women are more likely to vote for nanny state programs, men are more likely to vote for war.  And nothing takes away people's liberties like war as the right to life is our most important freedom.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #45 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 12:05am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Denying government the ability to keep women from voting was about women having equal freedom, nothing more.  It was a big step forward for freedom.  We don't deny freedom to groups of people in order to gain it.  Don't blame women for lack of freedom.  Both genders support big government, though in slightly different ways.  Women are more likely to vote for nanny state programs, men are more likely to vote for war.  And nothing takes away people's liberties like war as the right to life is our most important freedom.


Nice little friend you're trying to cozy up to for advice Ruby. At least my excuse for talking to him is because I'm attached and have o choice.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #46 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:39am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 9:08am:
There was greatly restricted liberty way before universal suffrage.
In the U.S.? Could you give a few examples other than slavery? Thanks.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #47 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:41am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 7:43pm:
Denying government the ability to keep women from voting was about women having equal freedom, nothing more.  It was a big step forward for freedom.
What are women free to do now that they weren't free to do before 1920? Besides get abortions on the open market.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #48 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 9:18am
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Quote:
In the U.S.? Could you give a few examples other than slavery? Thanks.


All over the world.  And denying most people the right to vote was greatly restricting freedom. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_the_United_States
Quote:
1789: The Constitution grants the states the power to set voting requirements. Generally, states limited this right to property-owning or tax-paying white males (about 6% of the population).[1]
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Communist Booted Out Of Military
Reply #49 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 10:05am
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Quote:
What are women free to do now that they weren't free to do before 1920? Besides get abortions on the open market.


Vote

Married women can now own and manage property in their name, sign contracts, own patents, have control over their own earnings, and have a trade licence.  They're free to not be raped by their husbands.

Women were denied much of the economic freedom that we enjoy today.  Though it may not have been against the law for women to get higher education and enter career fields dominated by men, society made it almost impossible for them to do so.
  
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