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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles (Read 914 times)
SkyChief
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #10 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:04pm
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« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2018 at 12:06pm by SkyChief »  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #11 - Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:26pm
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From the book I'm reading, The Libertarian Mind:

Quote:
In the libertarian view, we have an infinite number of rights contained in one natural right.  That one fundemental human right is the right to live your life as you choose so long as you don't infringe on the equal rights of others.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #12 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:18am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 23rd, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Yep.  And how does that infringe on other people's rights?


Well, you yourself said you want your kid to be able to play outside safely. With guns in the hands of gang members, that's not possible.

You said there was no right to own a tiger because it's too dangerous. I agreed with you. There is no right to own a tiger.

However, guns are equally dangerous. Rights are constructed so what some people want is protected by rights, and what other people want that's equivalent in risk to others is not.

In the libertarian view, we have an infinite number of rights contained in one natural right.  That one fundamental human right is the right to live your life as you choose so long as you don't infringe on the equal rights of others.

Libertarians will just define rights to help some and hurt others.

If the item in question is a tiger, you say that risk to you equals violating your rights.

If the item in question is a gun, risk to me is not violating my rights, of course.

That's where my mental picture of the rights bubble crushing non-libertarians is at least somewhat true. For most of you it's not malicious, but many of you have said I don't have rights.

You have to do this, because in your heart of hearts, you know the rights you demand are too expansive for everyone to have them.
  

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Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #13 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:44am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:18am:
Well, you yourself said you want your kid to be able to play outside safely. With guns in the hands of gang members, that's not possible.

The rational thing to do is end the war on drugs and remove the primary motivation for gangs to exist. It would help to stop paying women for having out of wedlock babies too.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #14 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 7:56am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:18am:
You said there was no right to own a tiger because it's too dangerous. I agreed with you. There is no right to own a tiger.

I disagree. The right to own animals is part of our general liberty, but with the Right, as with all Rights, comes responsibility.

You can own a car too, and they are known to be very dangerous, but when you own and operate a car, as is your Right, you accept the responsibility of using you car responsibly so as not to injure or kill others. The same goes for tigers.

I know you agree that living in a community of people results in certain restrictions being placed on you by the people in that community, some of which may not make sense to you... In fact it's likely that none of them make sense to you because you are not civilized (even though you can act civilized).

There are places where you can own a tiger and the local people won't object, and other places where people will object and your right will be restricted. You can't keep a bull in your backyard in most places either.

I live in a rural community where you can keep a horse, but only if you have at least five acres to keep it on. It's a restriction of liberty too, but it makes sense to almost everyone. That's how civilized communities are, they try to allow the maximum individual liberty for everyone while keeping the community civilized.

No, it's not "pure libertarianism". Civilized communities can't exist under "pure libertarianism".
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #15 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:57am
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The rational thing to do is end the war on drugs and remove the primary motivation for gangs to exist. It would help to stop paying women for having out of wedlock babies too.


This is true.  And the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  I can kill someone with a baseball bat.  Does that mean owning a bat infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's killing someone with the bat that fringed on their rights.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #16 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 12:55pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:57am:
This is true.  And the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  I can kill someone with a baseball bat.  Does that mean owning a bat infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's killing someone with the bat that fringed on their rights. 


Mr. Sickler's gun is an extension of me because of my diminutive size. I've learned to just ignore him and be happy with myself.

I'm working on sending peaceful and more grown up messages to it's central control! Roll Eyes
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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Jeff
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #17 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 3:56pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:57am:
This is true.  And the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  I can kill someone with a baseball bat.  Does that mean owning a bat infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's killing someone with the bat that fringed on their rights. 
Stay tuned for the Dork's response to your rational exposition of the truth-

Edit: Here it is, he was lying in wait to attack you Ruby...

"Mr. Sickler's gun is an extension of me because of my diminutive size. I've learned to just ignore him and be happy with myself."

Edit 2: Doesn't it sound like a Jamaican?

"I've learned to just ignore him and be happy with myself."
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 5:36pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:57am:
... the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  I can kill someone with a baseball bat.  Does that mean owning a bat infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's killing someone with the bat that fringed on their rights. 

Exactly.     Smiley
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Libertarian Rights? Bricks or Bubbles
Reply #19 - Jun 24th, 2018 at 6:37pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 24th, 2018 at 8:57am:
This is true.  And the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  I can kill someone with a baseball bat.  Does that mean owning a bat infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's killing someone with the bat that fringed on their rights. 


I can replace baseball bat with tiger, like so.

This is true.  And the right to own a gun doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.  My tiger can kill someone.  Does that mean owning a tiger infringes on anyone's rights.  Nope.  It's only when the tiger kills that infringed on their rights.

And I'm not even disputing that there is a right to own a gun but not a right to own a tiger.

I'm saying that because rights are constructed so there is a right to have a dog, or a gun, but not a chicken, or a tiger, they're constructed to give expansive rights bubbles to people who like guns and dogs, and the people who like chickens and tigers are the ones outside the bubbles getting crushed.

Statism would say that equal risk means equal right to have. If your gun has a statistical risk to my life of .1%, then I get to have a piece of property that presents a statistical risk to your life of .1%.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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