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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) So what should be done about the border? (Read 725 times)
ahhell
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So what should be done about the border?
Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:54am
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I know many libertarians would get rid of immigration restrictions entirely but that's not a realist policy given that we'd have to accommodate less open folks politically.

A. What's your ideal border policy?

B.  What is your more realistic and achievable policy?

  
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SkyChief
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #1 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 11:16am
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Open borders, and Guest Visas for people that want to stay here, but don't want citizenship.

A Guest Visa is $500 per person. Good for 12 months.  Can be renewed indefinitely, but at progressive rates.

If the immigrant cant afford it, a friend or relative may "sponsor" them by sending the $500 electronically, in advance.  Once payment is received, processing should take a few minutes. (background check and photo ID).

  
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SicklersDink
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #2 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 12:15pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I know many libertarians would get rid of immigration restrictions entirely but that's not a realist policy given that we'd have to accommodate less open folks politically.


Could you explain what you mean by 'less open folks politically'?

Quote:
B.  What is your more realistic and achievable policy?



Something close to the policy under Obama. In my opinion there never was a crisis situation and it was left alone because the need for immigrants was being fulfilled. It likely will continue to be because US industry and agriculture aren't viable without cheap labour.

Quote:
A. What's your ideal border policy?


Immigrants should be given legal status that would be the start of ensuring they wouldn't be used as cheap labour. It would also eliminate the US employers' abuse of child labour. "Ideally" US big business would tighten their belts, reduse profit to the multi-billionaires, and become able to pay fair wages to immigrants who become legal citizens.

I think my ideal solution would be completely consistent with true libertarian policy and priorities.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #3 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 1:19pm
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First of all, Dink, you have no crappity smacking idea what true libertarian policy is.  You are describing liberal policy.  I know, "liberal" and, "libertarian" sound alike, but they're not alike. 

And being a liberal, you really don't understand human behavior if you think people are going to just benevolently take a hit to their profits for the sake of those less fortunate.  Nope.  Less profit for them means higher prices and less hiring, and that hurts the little guys.

As for illegal immigrants, we need to stop giving them stuff that encourages them to come here.  Legalize all drugs and prostitution, which will stop the trafficking.  No more free education and healthcare (except in cases of a medical emergency).  I've got an ideal, Dink, how about Canada take in these people willing to sneak across other countries' borders?

BTW, I wish it was Singapore on our southern border instead of Mexico.
  
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ahhell
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #4 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 1:34pm
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Quote:
Could you explain what you mean by 'less open folks politically'?

People who want restrictions on immigration of some sort.  There aren't enough Americans who support fully open borders and immigration policy to get it passed into law, so what compromises are libertarians on the forum willing to make in order to get policy better than the current. 

  
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SicklersDink
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 1:55pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 1:34pm:
People who want restrictions on immigration of some sort.  There aren't enough Americans who support fully open borders and immigration policy to get it passed into law, so what compromises are libertarians on the forum willing to make in order to get policy better than the current. 



Thank you. Totally open borders was never a valid solution in my opinion. I could expand on that but won't right now.

Consider my answers if you will and ask me to expand on them if you're interested.

I think they're the only real libertarian answers possible.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #6 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 4:05pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I know many libertarians would get rid of immigration restrictions entirely but that's not a realist policy given that we'd have to accommodate less open folks politically.

A. What's your ideal border policy?


Open borders.

ahhell wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:54am:
B.  What is your more realistic and achievable policy?


Open borders.

Lots of people will be quick to tell you all the bad results of open borders, and they'll be right, but the fact of the matter is that we only get the good result because we are aggressing.

Just like stealing isn't acceptable even if it makes us vastly better off, closed borders are not acceptable even if that policy makes us vastly better off.

We're stealing from the superior workers south of the border who are faster, better, and more efficient than any American worker. They should be allowed to come in, and we should all starve, just as career thieves who can't do anything but steal should starve.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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ahhell
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #7 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Open borders.


Open borders.

Lots of people will be quick to tell you all the bad results of open borders, and they'll be right, but the fact of the matter is that we only get the good result because we are aggressing.

Just like stealing isn't acceptable even if it makes us vastly better off, closed borders are not acceptable even if that policy makes us vastly better off.

We're stealing from the superior workers south of the border who are faster, better, and more efficient than any American worker. They should be allowed to come in, and we should all starve, just as career thieves who can't do anything but steal should starve.

That neglect to address the bit where I asked for legislation that could actually get passed and signed into law.
  
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Jeff
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #8 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 5:00pm
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ahhell wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 9:54am:
I know many libertarians would get rid of immigration restrictions entirely but that's not a realist policy given that we'd have to accommodate less open folks politically.

A. What's your ideal border policy?

B.  What is your more realistic and achievable policy?

Being a person of only average intellect, I try to use the ideas of people much smarter than me as often as I can.

I'll do that now-

https://www.cato.org/cato-handbook-policymakers/cato-handbook-policy-makers-8th-...

Isn't it awesome?

I think it's a great policy prescription!
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: So what should be done about the border?
Reply #9 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 5:00pm:
Being a person of only average intellect, I try to use the ideas of people much smarter than me as often as I can.

I'll do that now-

https://www.cato.org/cato-handbook-policymakers/cato-handbook-policy-makers-8th-...

Isn't it awesome?

I think it's a great policy prescription!


Seems like those wankers at Cato are getting it about right boss. If there's any significant difference in my solution then let me know.

Oh, and last night with Mary Anne or betty anne, whatever, was pretty good. It could be better if you are more patient with me.
  
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