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DontTread44
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Is this a valid point?
Jun 25th, 2018 at 6:06pm
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Libertarians of course reject forcing a cake baker to bake a cake for someone or something he doesn't want to. This is denounced as statism. And I agree, businesses should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all and face the consequences of doing so.

But, I think it was Occupy Democrats, that made a point that made sense to me. It argued that like if you can deny service to anyone, that doctors could deny help to someone they didn't want to help. This is under the libertarian pretense that the hospital would not be obligated to help anyone and everyone that comes to their doorstep.

I'm not sure what to think.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #1 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 7:25pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 6:06pm:
Libertarians of course reject forcing a cake baker to bake a cake for someone or something he doesn't want to. This is denounced as statism. And I agree, businesses should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all and face the consequences of doing so.

But, I think it was Occupy Democrats, that made a point that made sense to me. It argued that like if you can deny service to anyone, that doctors could deny help to someone they didn't want to help. This is under the libertarian pretense that the hospital would not be obligated to help anyone and everyone that comes to their doorstep.

I'm not sure what to think.


The answer is quite simple. As libertarians we don't make a big fkn issue of such matters. We don't push an issue to the supreme court because we can, just to make a point that is going to haunt us forever.

That's the socially responsible solution. you figure out how to do it better!
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #2 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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DontTread44 wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 6:06pm:
Libertarians of course reject forcing a cake baker to bake a cake for someone or something he doesn't want to. This is denounced as statism. And I agree, businesses should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all and face the consequences of doing so.

But, I think it was Occupy Democrats, that made a point that made sense to me. It argued that like if you can deny service to anyone, that doctors could deny help to someone they didn't want to help. This is under the libertarian pretense that the hospital would not be obligated to help anyone and everyone that comes to their doorstep.

I'm not sure what to think.
Well, grocers could deny groceries to anyone they didn't want to sell to also...

Are you worried that people would starve?

Are hospitals private businesses, or servants of the state? That's what you should think about.

Try to keep a realistic perspective. Think about whether private businesses of servants of the state provide better service and products, and which cost more.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #3 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 7:54pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 7:50pm:
Well, grocers could deny groceries to anyone they didn't want to sell to also...

Are you worried that people would starve?

Are hospitals private businesses, or servants of the state? That's what you should think about.

Try to keep a realistic perspective. Think about whether private businesses of servants of the state provide better service and products, and which cost more.

Servants of the state can't Dick with citizens' rights just to make more profit boss. A real good case for goveenment taking over hospitals!

Lately I've noticed that I've become more considered as your conscience! The way to a man's heart isn't through his stomach boss.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #4 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:04pm
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Quote:
Lately I've noticed that I've become more considered as your conscience!
Take some time off Dork, and don't come back until I ask you to.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #5 - Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:31pm
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Jeff wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 8:04pm:
Take some time off Dork, and don't come back until I ask you to.


Sorry boss but as you know, we're permanently attached to each other.

Please do not consider any kind of self-mutiliation. Nobody wins with that. A bit of slapping around is o.k. with me though. I also don't mind a bit of vicks mixed in with the vaseline. Street drugs too if you must continue with that but not to the point of doing damage to central control.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #6 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 12:16am
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DontTread44 wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 6:06pm:
Libertarians of course reject forcing a cake baker to bake a cake for someone or something he doesn't want to. This is denounced as statism. And I agree, businesses should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all and face the consequences of doing so.

But, I think it was Occupy Democrats, that made a point that made sense to me. It argued that like if you can deny service to anyone, that doctors could deny help to someone they didn't want to help. This is under the libertarian pretense that the hospital would not be obligated to help anyone and everyone that comes to their doorstep.

I'm not sure what to think.


Yes, doctors and hospitals would have that right.

So if a doctor wanted someone dead, and that someone happened to show up at his practice dying, and there was no time to move that person, the doctor would basically get his wish.

Hopefully the hospitals that hire the doctors would make them agree to help everyone admitted by the hospital as part of the job, but the person who owns the hospital could have the same type of personal grudge.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SkyChief
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #7 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 12:54am
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DontTread44 wrote on Jun 25th, 2018 at 6:06pm:
Libertarians of course reject forcing a cake baker to bake a cake for someone or something he doesn't want to.

...doctors could deny help to someone they didn't want to help. This is under the libertarian pretense that the hospital would not be obligated to help anyone and everyone that comes to their doorstep.

I'm not sure what to think.

All Doctors are bound by the Hippocratic Oath...  To treat the ill to the best of one's ability, to preserve a patient's privacy, and most importantly; to do no harm.

Any oath can be broken.  Sadly, people do it all the time. 

There are Oath Keepers and Oath Breakers.

I have little no respect for Oath Breakers. I point them out whenever I can.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 7:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Jun 26th, 2018 at 12:16am:
Yes, doctors and hospitals would have that right.

So if a doctor wanted someone dead, and that someone happened to show up at his practice dying, and there was no time to move that person, the doctor would basically get his wish.

Hopefully the hospitals that hire the doctors would make them agree to help everyone admitted by the hospital as part of the job, but the person who owns the hospital could have the same type of personal grudge.
As usual, you construct a fantasy scenario.

ERs always admitted and do admit and would admit anyone in danger of dying and try to save them.

What we are talking about is ERs being forced to admit people who are not in immediate danger of dying, in other words, non-emergencies.

BTW, the owners of hospitals have lawyers who advise them about setting hospital policies, and the people working in the hospitals are required to follow hospital policy. The owners have no idea who is being admitted to their hospital or why, they only know that they can be sued for not trying to help people.

  
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thermf5
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Re: Is this a valid point?
Reply #9 - Jun 26th, 2018 at 8:23am
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Jeff wrote on Jun 26th, 2018 at 7:37am:
As usual, you construct a fantasy scenario.

ERs always admitted and do admit and would admit anyone in danger of dying and try to save them.

What we are talking about is ERs being forced to admit people who are not in immediate danger of dying, in other words, non-emergencies.

BTW, the owners of hospitals have lawyers who advise them about setting hospital policies, and the people working in the hospitals are required to follow hospital policy. The owners have no idea who is being admitted to their hospital or why, they only know that they can be sued for not trying to help people.


thats cuz of this cace https://www.justice.gov/osg/brief/providence-hosp-v-moses-amicus-invitation
  
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