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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Canada's Healthcare System (Read 1495 times)
Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #140 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 3:50am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 6th, 2018 at 4:39pm:
Does Canada's government account openly for how it spends tax revenue? Probably not...


Is telling people what they want to hear the same thing as lying?

Canada's politicians are the same as any other politician in the USA, England, France, Germany or Australia. The game is the same, it is played the same way. Its called buy people's votes with their own money. No government tells its people we spend your money in the way it will get us the most votes so we can be in power.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #141 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 6:41am
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No government tells its people we spend your money in the way it will get us the most votes so we can be in power.


That's why there will never be a libertarian government, libertarians don't buy votes.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #142 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 8:39am
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Quote:
Is telling people what they want to hear the same thing as lying?

Canada's politicians are the same as any other politician in the USA, England, France, Germany or Australia. The game is the same, it is played the same way. Its called buy people's votes with their own money. No government tells its people we spend your money in the way it will get us the most votes so we can be in power.
That's why the Framers of our Constitution worked so hard to try to make sure the government would not have any power to buy votes or enough money to make it worthwhile to lobby for crony status.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #143 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 8:43am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 6:41am:
That's why there will never be a libertarian government, libertarians don't buy votes.
Libertarians are humans too Ruby, subject to normal human failings...

In order to buy votes, first you have to have something to trade for those votes, and libertarians don't have that, the TwoParties do.

I'm not sure what you mean by "libertarian government". Even a limited Constitutional government that specifically protects individual rights and individual liberty and private property is based on grants of power that allow it to use force... How else could it protect our liberty?


  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #144 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 11:41am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 8:39am:
That's why the Framers of our Constitution worked so hard to try to make sure the government would not have any power to buy votes or enough money to make it worthwhile to lobby for crony status.


Yeah boss. How's that workin out for us so far? The US is known worldwide for corrupt government and buying votes!

You don't get around like I do boss.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #145 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 1:15pm
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Jeff, if they start buying votes, then they're not libertarian.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #146 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 1:53pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 8:43am:
Libertarians are humans too Ruby, subject to normal human failings...


Some aren't boss.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "libertarian government". Even a limited Constitutional government that specifically protects individual rights and individual liberty and private property is based on grants of power that allow it to use force... How else could it protect our liberty?




Obvioiusly boss. You need to talk to some of the p-l's on this forum. Don't leave it all to me.
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #147 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:13pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 6:41am:
That's why there will never be a libertarian government, libertarians don't buy votes.

It is when they use our money, our tax dollars, to buy votes that I am concerned about. If they use their own money, or campaign funds they have legally raised, to convince people to vote for them that is how the system works. (of course buying votes directly is illegal. They can not stand outside a polling station and give people $10 to vote for them).

It is when tax dollars are spent strategically to build a voter constituency or base rather than what is  required for the benefit of the country. Maintaining an obsolete military base or other unneeded  tax expenditure for the sole purpose of getting votes is what I refer to as buying votes with our money.

Redistribution of wealth to build voter loyalty from those who get other people's money is also buying votes.

Welfare support is needed if we want to have a compassionate society. At what point do we cross the line from being a compassionate society to becoming one that steals from one segment of society to buy the votes of another segment?

I could ask the  same question about Corporate Welfare payments to rich called tax breaks and subsidies.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #148 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 1:15pm:
Jeff, if they start buying votes, then they're not libertarian.

I'm a libertarian Ruby, and if I could afford to buy enough votes to make John Allison President, and knew how to go about it, I probably would.

That sort of thing, buying votes and making deals with cronies only works if you are a rich crony or a government crony... I'm neither.

If I tried to buy even one vote, I'd probably end up in federal prison.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #149 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:59pm
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It is when they use our money, our tax dollars, to buy votes that I am concerned about. If they use their own money, or campaign funds they have legally raised, to convince people to vote for them that is how the system works. (of course buying votes directly is illegal. They can not stand outside a polling station and give people $10 to vote for them).

It is when tax dollars are spent strategically to build a voter constituency or base rather than what isĀ  required for the benefit of the country. Maintaining an obsolete military base or other unneededĀ  tax expenditure for the sole purpose of getting votes is what I refer to as buying votes with our money.

Redistribution of wealth to build voter loyalty from those who get other people's money is also buying votes.

Welfare support is needed if we want to have a compassionate society.
I agreed up to this point Guy, but what I know is that a compassionate society takes care of it's most needy (if they can afford to that is) through acts of private giving and helping.

No amount of taxing and giving will turn a society compassionate. In fact, very much forced charity at all will harden people's hearts and make them tribal bigots.

Is that clear? Government action has never yet created a compassionate society.
  
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