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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Canada's Healthcare System (Read 1501 times)
SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #150 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 6:58pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:59pm:
Is that clear? Government action has never yet created a compassionate society.


Wrong boss, except in the US where government is so corrupt it ignores the wishes of the people.

In normal countries the people elect a government on promises a party makes, then government usually follows through on their promises.

That's how we got univeral government run health care boss. And that's compassionate. Only the US thinks people should die for lack of high quality health care.

I think Cuba has even moved above the US now boss. If I get a runny nose or bugs on me, will you promise to go to Cuba to get me fixed?
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #151 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 8:21pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 4:59pm:
I agreed up to this point Guy, but what I know is that a compassionate society takes care of it's most needy (if they can afford to that is) through acts of private giving and helping.

Is that clear? Government action has never yet created a compassionate society.

I posed it as a question,... where is the line crossed?  I think we both agreed a compassionate society was desirable. You obviously think the line is crossed when Government takes on the responsibility for helping people who need help. Private or non-government organizations can do a better job. I don't disagree with that. To be clear! I said welfare support is needed to have a compassionate society. If it should be support provided by the government or the non-government sectors of society would depend on who can do it better and more efficiently.  Should organizations such as United Way, the Salvation Army, or the Red Cross get non tax status and donations to such organization be given a tax credit? Would that be too much government involvement?
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #152 - Jul 7th, 2018 at 9:35pm
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I posed it as a question,... where is the line crossed?  I think we both agreed a compassionate society was desirable. You obviously think the line is crossed when Government takes on the responsibility for helping people who need help. Private or non-government organizations can do a better job. I don't disagree with that. To be clear! I said welfare support is needed to have a compassionate society. If it should be support provided by the government or the non-government sectors of society would depend on who can do it better and more efficiently.  Should organizations such as United Way, the Salvation Army, or the Red Cross get non tax status and donations to such organization be given a tax credit? Would that be too much government involvement?


Are you the one who ran over SnarkySack with your 18 wheeler truck?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #153 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 7:55am
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I posed it as a question,... where is the line crossed?  I think we both agreed a compassionate society was desirable. You obviously think the line is crossed when Government takes on the responsibility for helping people who need help. Private or non-government organizations can do a better job. I don't disagree with that. To be clear! I said welfare support is needed to have a compassionate society. If it should be support provided by the government or the non-government sectors of society would depend on who can do it better and more efficiently.  Should organizations such as United Way, the Salvation Army, or the Red Cross get non tax status and donations to such organization be given a tax credit? Would that be too much government involvement?
There are moral issues as well as efficiency issues, but if you are asking if charitable organizations should receive money that has been taken from people through taxation, the answer is no, and the reason is that the efficiency of private charities is a result of them being required to be efficient and efficacious in order to keep receiving donations.

Giving any organization a guaranteed stream of tax money removes the necessity for them to please their customers, which in the case of charities are not the people they help, but the people that donate to them.

People helping others is a result of compassion. Forced charity does not create compassion.

A good argument can be made that voluntary charity, the willing expression of compassion, creates more compassion. People who have been helped are more likely to pass the help along to others when they can.

People who receive "charity" as an "entitlement" are not likely to become compassionate and helping because they receive what they are told to believe is theirs by right.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #154 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 8:54am
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I'm a libertarian Ruby, and if I could afford to buy enough votes to make John Allison President, and knew how to go about it, I probably would.


Jeff, you can't get one party to control the government with personal campaign donations.  But you can use taxpayer money to buy elections, and that's what I mean by saying there will never be a libertarian government.  Since libertarians don't redistribute wealth, they can't buy a significant enough votes to gain and maintain power.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #155 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 8:59am
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People helping others is a result of compassion. Forced charity does not create compassion.

A good argument can be made that voluntary charity, the willing expression of compassion, creates more compassion. People who have been helped are more likely to pass the help along to others when they can.

People who receive "charity" as an "entitlement" are not likely to become compassionate and helping because they receive what they are told to believe is theirs by right.


And when charity through government redistribution of wealth was seen as a right, it created dependency.
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #156 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 1:52pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 7:55am:
People helping others is a result of compassion. Forced charity does not create compassion.



I think your point is that forced compassion or charity is not compassion. It is theft by the government for the purpose to take from one group and give to another group. That seems like a logically consistent argument as to where the line is crossed. I would only add that government does not do it because it is compassionate, they do it to buy votes with tax payer's money.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #157 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 2:03pm
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I think your point that forced compassion or charity is not compassion. It is theft by the government for the purpose to take from one group and give to another group. That seems like a logically consistent argument as to where the line is crossed. I would only add that government does not do it because it is compassionate, they do it to by votes with tax payer's money.


Too bad your first sentence didn't make any sense. Then that leaves the rest of your post up in the air?

No, the US government shows very little compassion for the people. Bernie Sanders could be accused of doing that.

Some of Canada's politicians actually claim to be compassionate. Maybe somebody else will pose the question to you so you can comment on it?

Right now there are a couple of really interesting possibilities for useful debates on US economic aggression. Lucky you that you don't have to talk about it right now!

I preferred SnarkySack to you. Do you think we could have  both of you on this forum at the same time?  Embarrassed
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #158 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 2:22pm
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I would only add that government does not do it because it is compassionate, they do it to buy votes with tax payer's money.


Yep.  This is why those on the left don't actually want to solve poverty, but rather keep the poor bogged down in their poverty and dependent on the government.  It's why the left wants to import more poor people.
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #159 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 2:31pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 2:22pm:
Yep.  This is why those on the left don't actually want to solve poverty, but rather keep the poor bogged down in their poverty and dependent on the government.  It's why the left wants to import more poor people.



“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

“It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
―  P.J. O'Rourke (frequently wrongly attributed to  Alexis de Tocqueville )
  
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