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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Canada's Healthcare System (Read 1080 times)
RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #10 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 5:51pm
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Drug prices are a huge reason Americans pay more in healthcare, and drug companies make much of their profits off Americans.  So of course Americans will try to get their drugs where it's cheaper.
  
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #11 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 6:32pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 10:22am:
From the book I'm reading, The Libertarian Mind:


Holy shit!  And I thought it was bad last year when it took me two weeks to get in to see a gastroenterologist. 


No wonder so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their medical needs.


I am very familiar with both systems, and have used both for my self and my family. There is a lot of misinformation or biased information floating around out there. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. Statistics can be misleading, but Measured healthcare outcomes is usually better in Canada than the USA. This depends on the regions of both countries you are comparing. It depends on which illness or condition you are comparing. Anecdotal stories of cutting off the wrong leg or the doctor leaving behind their watch in the abdomen following surgery exist in both countries. Individual anecdotal stories do not give an accurate comparison of both systems. Canada health care is not Free. Taxes are much higher in Canada to pay for it. Someone always pays. Wait times to see a specialist can be an issue in Canada, depending on what kind of specialist you need. Knee replacement has been a problem because so many baby boomers are hitting the age where it is needed. Wait times for referrals are only longer if it is not urgent. If you have an issue that requires you see a specialist quickly you will see one quickly. I had to wait one day to see a gastroenterologist in Canada because my family doctor thought it was urgent. It turned out to be semi-urgent and I received excellent and timely care. I think comparing the two systems is complex, and it is such a politically hot topic that it is difficult to have a useful discussion that would inform people which system would be better for them.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #12 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 6:40pm
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goodbye wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 6:32pm:
I am very familiar with both systems, and have used both for my self and my family. There is a lot of misinformation or biased information floating around out there. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. Statistics can be misleading, but Measured healthcare outcomes is usually better in Canada than the USA. This depends on the regions of both countries you are comparing. It depends on which illness or condition you are comparing. Anecdotal stories of cutting off the wrong leg or the doctor leaving behind their watch in the abdomen following surgery exist in both countries. Individual anecdotal stories do not give an accurate comparison of both systems. Canada health care is not Free. Taxes are much higher in Canada to pay for it. Someone always pays. Wait times to see a specialist can be an issue in Canada, depending on what kind of specialist you need. Knee replacement has been a problem because so many baby boomers are hitting the age where it is needed. Wait times for referrals are only longer if it is not urgent. If you have an issue that requires you see a specialist quickly you will see one quickly. I had to wait one day to see a gastroenterologist in Canada because my family doctor thought it was urgent. It turned out to be semi-urgent and I received excellent and timely care. I think comparing the two systems is complex, and it is such a politically hot topic that it is difficult to have a useful discussion that would inform people which system would be better for them.


No health care is free of course but you're not right when you say that taxes are higher in Canada. An overall comparison finds that the difference in taxation in the two countries is too close to say either way.

The big issue is that poor Americans don't get quality health care and that puts the US next to Cuba in quality. The US is one better at 37th.

Of all the deveoloped modern first world countries, the US is the worst. The US standing is brought up to 37th. because it looks after the wealthy so well.

For Americans who don't care about their fellow Americans, (mostly blacks) they want to keep the system how it is. It's just as simple as that.

Other countries whose people are much more socially responsible do care and that's why we criticize the US health care mess they live with and accept.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #13 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 6:41pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 5:51pm:
Drug prices are a huge reason Americans pay more in healthcare, and drug companies make much of their profits off Americans.  So of course Americans will try to get their drugs where it's cheaper.


It's far from just drug prices little girl. When you grow up to be a big girl you'll be more honest about your country's health care mess.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #14 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 7:49pm
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SicklersDink wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 6:40pm:
No health care is free of course but you're not right when you say that taxes are higher in Canada. An overall comparison finds that the difference in taxation in the two countries is too close to say either way.
The big issue is that poor Americans don't get quality health care and that puts the US next to Cuba in quality. The US is one better at 37th.

Of all the deveoloped modern first world countries, the US is the worst. The US standing is brought up to 37th. because it looks after the wealthy so well.

For Americans who don't care about their fellow Americans, (mostly blacks) they want to keep the system how it is. It's just as simple as that.

Other countries whose people are much more socially responsible do care and that's why we criticize the US health care mess they live with and accept.


I don't disagree with anything you said. I have seen same stats from reputable sources. Also cost per patient is much higher in the USA. I did a comparison several years ago on the difference between my family of 4 for private health insurance in the USA and higher taxes in Canada. It worked out to be almost the same, no difference. If I had a good employers health plan through my job I would have been better off in the USA. I understand Health Insurance costs in the USA have skyrocketed so it may not be true any more. I would say the best option is an excellent US health care plan through your employment. Second best is the Canadian Health Care system. Medicaid or Medicare in the USA is third best option. If you don't have health insurance in the USA and don't qualify for assistance you are screwed. I don't know much about Obamacare or how it would compare. It is a question about a person's personal philosophy about our social responsibilities for our fellow citizens. Maybe that is where it becomes a question for a libertarian discussion, which I thought this forum was about. My screen name is Dual Guy because I have Dual US/Canadian citizenship and live in both countries.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #15 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 8:12pm
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goodbye wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
If you don't have health insurance in the USA and don't qualify for assistance you are screwed. I don't know much about Obamacare or how it would compare. It is a question about a person's personal philosophy about our social responsibilities for our fellow citizens. Maybe that is where it becomes a question for a libertarian discussion, which I thought this forum was about.


This forum is supposed to be about libertarian principles. It's obviously not in my opinion and apparently yours too.

But a question to you: If you have employer paid health care in the US, does that mean you're always better off than Canadians? My information is that health care insurance varied greatly in the US and some stops short of providing more expensive procedures.

In Canada, the standard for all the people is declared to be equal. Most Americans on this forum continuously espouse a system in which the more well off should get better quality and more expensive care.

Thanks for keeping the discussion honest. I know enough about it to keep it that way too.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #16 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 8:48pm
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SicklersDink wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 8:12pm:
This forum is supposed to be about libertarian principles. It's obviously not in my opinion and apparently yours too.

But a question to you: If you have employer paid health care in the US, does that mean you're always better off than Canadians? My information is that health care insurance varied greatly in the US and some stops short of providing more expensive procedures.

In Canada, the standard for all the people is declared to be equal. Most Americans on this forum continuously espouse a system in which the more well off should get better quality and more expensive care.

Thanks for keeping the discussion honest. I know enough about it to keep it that way too.


I said excellent employment health care benefits. I am sure some plans are better than others. I have had excellent healthcare through my job in the USA. There is still a co-pay, but coverage is very good and includes prescriptions and other things that only extended healthcare plans cover in Canada. I have also had HMO and other not so good plans. By the way, I think you will find that there are a lot more poor white people in the USA than poor black people. I think the black population is about 12% and the Hispanic population is about 18%. There may be more poor white people than all non-white combined. I don't think healthcare is a race based or discrimination issue. It is a human issue and I think a human rights issue if we want to go into the philosophical debate.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #17 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 10:36pm
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SicklersDink wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 8:12pm:
This forum is supposed to be about libertarian principles. It's obviously not in my opinion and apparently yours too.


Neither you nor Dual Guy have the slightest clue what libertarianism is about.

You both favor taxes - you both are moonbats.

Notify Bernie - He can put you two to good use.   

I must bathe now.  Smiley
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #18 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 11:23pm
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goodbye wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 8:48pm:
I said excellent employment health care benefits. I am sure some plans are better than others. I have had excellent healthcare through my job in the USA. There is still a co-pay, but coverage is very good and includes prescriptions and other things that only extended healthcare plans cover in Canada.


Thanks for your answer. But it appears to not be an answer because the details are in the co-pay you mention.

No, prescriptions are not paid for in Canada as a rule  but are detuctible on income tax. The 'other things' you mention, I'm not aware of. Basically, the rule is that everybody receives the same high quality care regardless of their ability to pay. I support that principle and Canadians do too. I understand that some or many Americans don't. It would seem that if libertarians don't then the political right certainly wouldn't?

I have also had HMO and other not so good plans. By the way, I think you will find that there are a lot more poor white people in the USA than poor black people. I think the black population is about 12% and the Hispanic population is about 18%. There may be more poor white people than all non-white combined. I don't think healthcare is a race based or discrimination issue.
[/quote]

I don't know what I should take from that. You don't seem to be talking about per centages of poor people in any of the different racial groups.

Quote:
It is a human issue and I think a human rights issue if we want to go into the philosophical debate.


I too believe it's a human rights issue to have good affordable health care for all the people. I'm not asking to debate it, nor am I interested in debating it with you. And I don't think my mind could ever be changed on the issue. Not to suggest that you want to even try.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #19 - Jun 28th, 2018 at 11:29pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 28th, 2018 at 10:36pm:
Neither you nor Dual Guy have the slightest clue what libertarianism is about.

You both favor taxes - you both are moonbats.

Notify Bernie - He can put you two to good use.   

I must bathe now.  Smiley


You've been challenged by an impartial voice and now you're feeling uncomfortable and vulnerable.

Now you know you're nothing like a real libertarian and the pseudo-libertarian dirt will never wash off of you.

What a horrible thing to hear! It being inferred that a libertarian would have to care about other people!  Embarrassed
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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