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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Canada's Healthcare System (Read 1981 times)
RubyHypatia
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #30 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 10:28am
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https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increas...

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TORONTO — When Sharon Shamblaw was diagnosed last summer with a form of blood cancer that could only be treated with a particular stem cell transplant, the search for a donor began. A Toronto hospital, 100 miles east of her home in St. Mary's, Ontario, and one of three facilities in the province that could provide the life-saving treatment, had an eight-month waiting list for transplants.
Four months after her diagnosis, Shamblaw headed to Buffalo, New York, for treatment. But it was too late. She died at the age of 46, leaving behind a husband and three children, as detailed by the Toronto Star.


How many other Canadians have died waiting for treatment?  Do stories like this one get drowned out by reporting of how wonderful socialized medicine is?  How many Canadians' lives are saved by American healthcare?  Is it fair to compare the two systems when one is dependent on the other?
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #31 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:09pm
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I don't think either of us spoke in favor or against taxes. It was  a discussion about health care comparisons in two different countries and that it is not free in Canada, but paid for by someone. Just like it is in the USA. You should try to be less rude, it would be better for your heart health and mental health.

I sincerely apologize.  I confused you with another newbie (who has stated that he favors taxes/wealth redistribution) on the forum.  My bad.   Embarrassed

Dink IS a moonbat, however. He pretends to be libertarian because he's a troll and says whatever he can to get people riled up. 

So you're against taxes, then?
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #32 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:23pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
I sincerely apologize.  I confused you with another newbie (who has stated that he favors taxes/wealth redistribution) on the forum.  My bad.   Embarrassed

Dink IS a moonbat, however. He pretends to be libertarian because he's a troll and says whatever he can to get people riled up. 

So you're against taxes, then?


Everybody is against paying taxes Chief. It's just that Dual Guy and I both understand that taxes are necessary. Why  not ask him if he thinks that all income taxation can be abolished?
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #33 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:25pm
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Ruby, did you miss where I showed that over 250,000 Americans come to Canada every year for medical purposes they can't afford in their own country? And that didn't include pharmaceuticals. It also said something about around a dozen Canadians travel to the US for the same each year.

Keep the cards and letter coming skanky!
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #34 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 2:00pm
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SkyChief wrote on Jun 29th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
I sincerely apologize.  I confused you with another newbie (who has stated that he favors taxes/wealth redistribution) on the forum.  My bad.   Embarrassed

Dink IS a moonbat, however. He pretends to be libertarian because he's a troll and says whatever he can to get people riled up. 

So you're against taxes, then?


The problem of course is the contract between the individual and society and the constraints that contract puts on the individual's liberty. The individual does not enter into that contract freely, of their own free will. it is imposed on them when they are born. I could choose not to pay taxes and go to jail which would be an extreme constraint on my liberty. My concern is do I get value for my money for the taxes I pay? Do I agree with what my tax money is spent on by government? Does the taxation place constraints on my Liberty?  Politicians usually spend tax dollars to buy votes so they will get re-elected and keep their power. If they are buying my vote and it is an efficient expenditure of tax dollars then I am ok with paying the tax. If they are buying someone else's vote or not spending the tax dollar efficiently I don't like giving the government my money.  The individual almost always spends their money more efficiently, more wisely, more effectively for themselves and also the benefit of society than the government does. It is much easier to spend somebody else's dollar than your own, which politicians know all too well.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #35 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 2:30pm
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The problem of course is the contract between the individual and society and the constraints that contract puts on the individual's liberty. The individual does not enter into that contract freely, of their own free will. it is imposed on them when they are born. I could choose not to pay taxes and go to jail which would be an extreme constraint on my liberty. My concern is do I get value for my money for the taxes I pay? Do I agree with what my tax money is spent on by government? Does the taxation place constraints on my Liberty?  Politicians usually spend tax dollars to buy votes so they will get re-elected and keep their power. If they are buying my vote and it is an efficient expenditure of tax dollars then I am ok with paying the tax. If they are buying someone else's vote or not spending the tax dollar efficiently I don't like giving the government my money.  The individual almost always spends their money more efficiently, more wisely, more effectively for themselves and also the benefit of society than the government does. It is much easier to spend somebody else's dollar than your own, which politicians know all too well.


Great post for this forum Dual Guy! You come across as a voice of reason in a wilderness of extremism. Especially the part of your post I've bolded.

From that it's clear to me that you don't take the irrational approach of eliminating income taxation completely. I find that to be completely within the reach of libertarianism in that mechanisms can be enacted to make income taxation more fair and especially less wasteful of the taxpayer's dollar.

I often speak of pseudo-libertarianism, as opposed to real libertarianism. I hope you stick around on this forum so I can get the opportunity of pointing out the obvious differences in the two.

Sadly, the SkyChief is not yet ready to accept that his extremist ideas are not going to ever be possible. That in my opinion is holding the forum and it's participants back from making any progress toward a reasonable and sane concensous.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #36 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 3:47pm
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Everybody is against paying taxes Chief. It's just that Dual Guy and I both understand that taxes are necessary. Why  not ask him if he thinks that all income taxation can be abolished?

A better question would be if he thinks that all income taxation should be abolished.

Income Taxation can be abolished if Congress agrees to it. All it takes is a bill to pass, the Presidents signature at the bottom of the page and its done. They don't even need to repeal the 16th Amendment.


"When I say cut taxes, I don’t mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing."   -  Dr. Ron Paul
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #37 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 4:41pm
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Great post for this forum Dual Guy! You come across as a voice of reason in a wilderness of extremism. Especially the part of your post I've bolded.

From that it's clear to me that you don't take the irrational approach of eliminating income taxation completely. I find that to be completely within the reach of libertarianism in that mechanisms can be enacted to make income taxation more fair and especially less wasteful of the taxpayer's dollar.

I often speak of pseudo-libertarianism, as opposed to real libertarianism. I hope you stick around on this forum so I can get the opportunity of pointing out the obvious differences in the two.

Sadly, the SkyChief is not yet ready to accept that his extremist ideas are not going to ever be possible. That in my opinion is holding the forum and it's participants back from making any progress toward a reasonable and sane concensous.


There are 335 million American opinions, and 35 million Canadian opinions. Unless you are a Supreme Court Justice, President or Prime Minister no body cares what your or my opinion is. (ok, maybe my wife because she has to listen to it). I am interested in my opinion and you are probably interested in yours. I am not interested in changing or confirming your opinion. What is one more opinion in an ocean of opinions. For some reason I don't understand why everyone is so "gung ho" on expressing their opinions as if it matters.  I am interested in sharing the ideas that underlie and shape our opinions. It helps me to examine my own opinions which I am interested in. I don't think of libertarian-ism as a religion that needs to be evangelized. I am not sure why a libertarian would want to change another person's ideas or opinions. Shouldn't they be entitled to hold their own ideas and opinions, but not to push them on to other people.

There are so many tax systems, consumption taxes like sales or VAT taxes,  Property taxes, income taxes ( Flat and progressively graduated). The most insidious tax is Inflation which is a hidden tax due to the government just running the printing presses overtime to get more money for them to buy votes. The question of which tax is more or less fair to the individual probably depends on which tax system takes more dollars out of their pocket and for what purpose. We can avoid consumption taxes by not buying anything. We can avoid income taxes by not being employed. We can avoid property and capital gains taxes by not owning anything including stocks. It seems like a big topic on its own merits and maybe needs its own forum question on taxation.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #38 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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The problem of course is the contract between the individual and society and the constraints that contract puts on the individual's liberty.
Contracts constrain both parties to the agreement.

Surely you know that? A contract between us cannot make either of us the master of the other, but contracts can/do specify duties on the part of both parties.

In short common words, being any part of any society will always constrain your liberty to some extent.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: Canada's Healthcare System
Reply #39 - Jun 29th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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I could choose not to pay taxes and go to jail which would be an extreme constraint on my liberty. 

Indeed, it would.

Do you think that Income Tax should be abolished, or do you think the government is entitled to a portion of your paycheck?
  
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