Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Abortion in the US.
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Abortion in the US. (Read 151 times)
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #10 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 7:08am
Print Post  
SicklersDink wrote on Jul 4th, 2018 at 7:53pm:
Preferably not now boss. You've already gone off and your words aren't your real true feelings. Maybe tomorrow? I'll let you know.


You wanted to discuss abortion and started the thread...

Is a woman's "positive" right the same as a natural right?

Do women have natural rights that men don't?


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1977
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #11 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 4th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
Let's say the man is the father... are you saying some natural right exists for fathers?

It seems you want to say mothers have some natural right that fathers don't...

They clearly do have a natural right that fathers do not.  When fathers can get pregnant and carry a child to term, that will change.

The reason abortion is so contentious in the US is because the pro-abortion side wants abortion to be free and easy to get and paid for by the government and the anti-abortion side doesn't want abortion to happen at all.  The Majority of Americans are fine with reasonable limits on later term abortions and understand that there will be cost and inconvenience for some women to get them. 

The reality is that we currently have a legal framework for abortion similar to most Western nations and less restrictive than many but we try to avoid  tax money paying for them.

The Dems and Reps like the issue to remain contentious as it motivates a portion of their bases.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 862
Location: British Columbia
Joined: Jun 21st, 2018
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #12 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 12:22pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 4th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
Let's say the man is the father... are you saying some natural right exists for fathers?

It seems you want to say mothers have some natural right that fathers don't...


You can ask the same question in a more respectable way now.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 862
Location: British Columbia
Joined: Jun 21st, 2018
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #13 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 12:31pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 12:15pm:
They clearly do have a natural right that fathers do not.  When fathers can get pregnant and carry a child to term, that will change.

The reason abortion is so contentious in the US is because the pro-abortion side wants abortion to be free and easy to get and paid for by the government and the anti-abortion side doesn't want abortion to happen at all.  The Majority of Americans are fine with reasonable limits on later term abortions and understand that there will be cost and inconvenience for some women to get them. 

The reality is that we currently have a legal framework for abortion similar to most Western nations and less restrictive than many but we try to avoid  tax money paying for them.

The Dems and Reps like the issue to remain contentious as it motivates a portion of their bases.


I was trying to keep this issue about social responsibility but you've turned it into a political issue and more about your health care system.

If even you are trying to avoid taking social responsibility for women before they get into an abortion situation, then there's obviously no interest by any of the others.

Sadly, it seems the only one who learned anything about social responsibility was burnsred, in the discussion on Norway's prison system. Even though he grudgingly had to agree before returning right back to his dogmatic position of the US knowing better than any other country.

I obviously can't be so honest and direct with you p-l's. You'll all have to be waltzed along and tricked into coming to an understanding.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #14 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:37pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 12:15pm:
They clearly do have a natural right that fathers do not.  When fathers can get pregnant and carry a child to term, that will change.

That's not clear to me. Could you explain?

Couldn't I say, when women can impregnate themselves, the father's rights will disappear?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 862
Location: British Columbia
Joined: Jun 21st, 2018
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #15 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 2:47pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 1:37pm:
That's not clear to me. Could you explain?


It doesn't need an explanation but maybe you can get him to?

Quote:
Couldn't I say, when women can impregnate themselves, the father's rights will disappear?


You know the answer to that. Unless you're being silly and in that case you have 'gone off' completely already.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 1977
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #16 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 3:39pm
Print Post  
SicklersDink wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 2:47pm:
It doesn't need an explanation but maybe you can get him to?


It falls into the category of, if he doesn't understand, nobody could really explain it to him but I'll try.

Women have a natural right to get pregnant and have babies.  Men do not.  Most folks would also argue that that quite naturally gives them greater authority over how to treat the fetus during gestation.  Men and fathers have some rights regarding gestation but certainly not as much mothers and women.  A man can literally walk away from the fetus he helped create, a women can not unless she aborts it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #17 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 3:58pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Jul 5th, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Women have a natural right to get pregnant and have babies.
And if they can do it by themselves, more power to them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #18 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 4:06pm
Print Post  
I've developed a scenario... (pay attention lizard, make sure I don't run off into complete fantasy land like you always do...)

Anyway, I'm a young fertile woman. Friends invite me to some sort of gathering, and I get a bit inebriated and meet a guy who is fun and physically attractive.

When I find out I am pregnant, I draw up a short contract and go to see him.

Essentially, I tell him that if he wants this baby, he can have it, but he has to sign a contract to that effect within 60 days, or I will abort our "fetus".

If both of us then agree to abort the whatever you want to call it, it will be done. Unless he is a shit like Dork, he will offer to pay for the abortion, and we will be done.

If he wants our baby, I will carry it to term and give it to him, but then I will stalk his life to make sure he gives our baby a good chance in life...

That's a pretty libertarian scenario I know.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Abortion in the US.
Reply #19 - Jul 5th, 2018 at 4:14pm
Print Post  
Drat! When you said you were busy, I hoped it was on this, your thread! Cry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Abortion in the US.
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy