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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing? (Read 1660 times)
Jeff
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #100 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:03am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 8:53am:
Well then, by that same logic, men having the vote has been detrimental to human liberty.  It has led to wars and the taking of human lives, their most important freedom.
The difference is, men didn't vote for pro-war candidates, and (according to you) women did vote for socialist candidates.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #101 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:07am
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All human behavior can be explained by the social biological imperative to procreate. Even our desire for personal liberty is nothing more than the desire for the freedom to reproduce, thus extending our DNA into future generations of our species.


Well, much of it anyway.  Most of us still want the freedom to make our own choices in life, whether it's about sex or not.  But you're right in that the urge to procreate is very strong, the sex drive is very, very hard to control.  And I wouldn't want to go back to living in a sexually repressed society where sex is looked at as dirty, where contraptions are used to keep boys from having wet dreams (or they're told they'll go blind if they masturbate), where good women don't think about sex, just endure it in marriage.  Sex should be looked at in a positive light with a HUGE emphasis on responsibility.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #102 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:12am
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Yes, general liberty and freedom of speech and conscience give everybody the right to participate in politics, and women did, even before they were allowed to vote-

http://time.com/4549800/jeannette-rankin-100/

Nevertheless, voting is not a natural right. No governments exist in nature. Governments are created things, and the humans who create them decide how the governments will operate, including who, if anybody, will be allowed to vote.


Voting is part of participating in politics.  When women weren't allowed to vote, but men were, it meant women weren't allowed to FULLY participate in politics.  This means their liberty was being limited, and they were not equal to men, a violation of their natural rights.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #103 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:19am
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The difference is, men didn't vote for pro-war candidates, and (according to you) women did vote for socialist candidates.


More men than women are Republicans and Republicans are more likely to vote for war.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #104 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 1:27pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:19am:
More men than women are Republicans and Republicans are more likely to vote for war.
What candidate ever ran on a pro-war platform?

As far as Members of Congress voting for wars and "authorizations of force" Republicans and Democrats in Congress both do it/have done it, including the women in Congress.

I agree that war is the heath of the State, but it has not been uniformly bad for human liberty. Wars have liberated many people from tyranny and the threat of tyranny.


  
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Jeff
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #105 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 1:51pm
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I thought you'd find this interesting Ruby-

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/news/woman-suffrage/

I know, I know, the British should have allowed women to vote as soon as they created their Parliament, then the English colonies in America would have had women voting, and the U.S. probably would have had universal suffrage from the beginning.
  
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Dual Guy
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #106 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:07am:
Well, much of it anyway.  Most of us still want the freedom to make our own choices in life, whether it's about sex or not.  But you're right in that the urge to procreate is very strong, the sex drive is very, very hard to control.  And I wouldn't want to go back to living in a sexually repressed society where sex is looked at as dirty, where contraptions are used to keep boys from having wet dreams (or they're told they'll go blind if they masturbate), where good women don't think about sex, just endure it in marriage.  Sex should be looked at in a positive light with a HUGE emphasis on responsibility.


The exercise of our liberty is dependent on having a free will to make choices. If we don't have free will then how is freedom even a possible option. Are we prisoners of our own biological existence? If our biology itself is programmed to determine all of our behavior, choices and actions, then where does that leave the Libertarian?  Is it only an illusion that we can intellectually or spiritually transcend our biology and attain freedom?

If the sexual revolution was about freedom, I ask Freedom to do what?  Have more sex?  Is the desire for more sex is a biological drive or a free will choice for more freedom?
  
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Jeff
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #107 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:24pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 9:12am:
Voting is part of participating in politics.  When women weren't allowed to vote, but men were, it meant women weren't allowed to FULLY participate in politics.  This means their liberty was being limited, and they were not equal to men, a violation of their natural rights.
Nothing about government or the political process derives from natural rights. It is all human created.

The idea of America was to create a government that would best protect the rights and liberty of everyone, and the system created by the Constitution did that quite well for a long time.

The only voting at a national level is (supposed to be) for Representatives and Presidential Electors, and it can rightly be said that allowing Presidential Electors to chose the president violates the "right" of everyone else to vote for the president, or that having state legislatures appoint U.S. Senators violates the "right" of everyone else to vote for the Senator they prefer.

"Progressives" are in favor of electing presidents by popular democratic votes, just as they were the driving force behind the 17th Amendment and the 19th Amendment...

Making America more "democratic" has always been a "progressive" goal, and the more they have succeeded, the less free we have become, the more socialism has crept into our laws and our lives.

I appreciate the sentiment behind the liberty to fully participate in the political process on an equal basis, but what it produces is a government that socializes things, creates "quotas" for women, and calls that "liberty and equality", a "democratic" system; And a "democratic" system is one of the things the Founders rightly tried very hard to prevent, because they knew it would destroy individual liberty and individual rights.
  
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Jeff
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #108 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm
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The exercise of our liberty is dependent on having a free will to make choices. If we don't have free will then how is freedom even a possible option. Are we prisoners of our own biological existence? If our biology itself is programmed to determine all of our behavior, choices and actions, then where does that leave the Libertarian?  Is it only an illusion that we can intellectually or spiritually transcend our biology and attain freedom?

If the sexual revolution was about freedom, I ask Freedom to do what?  Have more sex?  Is the desire for more sex is a biological drive or a free will choice for more freedom?
We have free will, but it is always constrained by the rights of others as well as by the customs and mores of our societies.

The "sexual revolution" was part of the larger "revolution" of the time, which sought to tear down the existing society so that a new and "better" society could be created.

Were the revolutionaries thinking about what the abandonment of sexual mores would do to families and children?

If they thought about it at all, they envisioned a future where the entire world would be like one big happy tribe, where everyone would give to the best of their abilities and take only what they needed, and that in such a society, some people would obviously step up to care for the children... And until the day when such a society was actually realized, The State would care for the children. 

There was also a widespread belief that birth control worked and that sexually transmitted diseases had been conquered by modern medicine and that nobody would possibly be harmed by open sexual relationships.
  
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Re: Was the Sexual Revolution a Bad Thing?
Reply #109 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:41pm
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The exercise of our liberty is dependent on having a free will to make choices. If we don't have free will then how is freedom even a possible option. Are we prisoners of our own biological existence? If our biology itself is programmed to determine all of our behavior, choices and actions, then where does that leave the Libertarian?  Is it only an illusion that we can intellectually or spiritually transcend our biology and attain freedom?

If the sexual revolution was about freedom, I ask Freedom to do what?  Have more sex?  Is the desire for more sex is a biological drive or a free will choice for more freedom?

freedom to not be monagomiss or have sosidy force to  to have a wife and kids other wise ur a bad person i will give u aneggsample let say ur in to sertian kinks or u have an open relationship or margrage that should not matter bill chilting geting consentual sex from his employs should not matter or the face that jfk had sex with woman other then his wife should not matter becouse concentual sex should never be a black mail material or a crime its like when thay could not get copone for bootleging or a volent crime so thay got him for not paying his taxes the pont still stands that moral grand standers ruin sosidty
  
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