Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference (Read 261 times)
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6597
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Jul 7th, 2018 at 10:36pm
Print Post  
Neoliberals often accuse Trump of being isolationist.

If we understand the actual definition of the term, it becomes obvious this couldn't be further from the truth.

i·so·la·tion·ism
ˌīsəˈlāSHən izəm
(noun)
a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.


Trump is actively engaged in political (and Military) intervention into many foreign affairs.  As have been most modern US presidents.  Definitely NOT isolationist.

Trump is, however, anti-globalist.  Or at least he wants us to think he is.  He campaigned on it, and that was probably an important factor in his victory over whatsherface.

"America First" was the battle cry.  Americans bought into it. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31441
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #1 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 8:12am
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 7th, 2018 at 10:36pm:
Neoliberals often accuse Trump of being isolationist.

If we understand the actual definition of the term, it becomes obvious this couldn't be further from the truth.

i·so·la·tion·ism
ˌīsəˈlāSHən izəm
(noun)
a policy of remaining apart from the affairs or interests of other groups, especially the political affairs of other countries.


Trump is actively engaged in political (and Military) intervention into many foreign affairs.  As have been most modern US presidents.  Definitely NOT isolationist.

Trump is, however, anti-globalist.  Or at least he wants us to think he is.  He campaigned on it, and that was probably an important factor in his victory over whatsherface.

"America First" was the battle cry.  Americans bought into it. 
What does it mean to be a "globalist" (or an "anti-globalist")?

Are people who advocate free trade "globalists"?

This is a pretty long read, but I think it's germane to your topic-

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-843.pdf
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6597
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #2 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 11:37am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 8:12am:
What does it mean to be a "globalist" (or an "anti-globalist")?

Are people who advocate free trade "globalists"?

This is a pretty long read, but I think it's germane to your topic-

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-843.pdf

Globalism is the ideology for a "Liberal World Order" where a handful of ruling oligarchs govern socio-economic operations on a global basis. They aim to spread democracy throughout the world.

Thomas Jefferson was ANTI-globalist:

"Let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce"

From the CATO article you linked:

"If Washington can be liberated from the burdensome historical fantasy that hegemonic nostalgists impose upon it, then it can gain a clearer-sighted appreciation of the choices now before it."

Globalism is BAD for Americans.  I don't want some rich neoliberals in France or Austria making decisions that might affect my life.  And I realize (and accept) that some cultures are not ready for Democracy and trying to force it down their throats only causes hatred and resentment - sometimes even War.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 757
Location: British Columbia
Joined: Jun 21st, 2018
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #3 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 11:55am
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:
"Let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce"


And that's exactly what Trump is trying to do. Separate US wishes on the rest of the world in commerce.

Then pseudo-libertarian wankers applaud his efforts for doing it. They think that it's the way to their wishes and they don't notice that it's the incideous encroachment of Nazi methods.

Americans will be the last to notice. Stupid ones likely never will, even as their country burns.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31441
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #4 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 4:45pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 11:37am:
Globalism is the ideology for a "Liberal World Order" where a handful of ruling oligarchs govern socio-economic operations on a global basis. They aim to spread democracy throughout the world.

OK, it has to do with world government, but what makes you think they always want to spread democracy? Socialist style democracy both seem to be popular with would be world rulers. Cry

Edit: BTW, there's nothing liberal about wanting to rule the world!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6597
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #5 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 4:45pm:
OK, it has to do with world government, but what makes you think they always want to spread democracy? Socialist style democracy both seem to be popular with would be world rulers. Cry

Edit: BTW, there's nothing liberal about wanting to rule the world!

This article explains it better than I ever could:   [excerpts]

We are at present engaged in what purports to be a planned reordering of the world by the powerful states. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are but one part of a supposedly universal effort to create world order by "spreading democracy." This idea is not merely quixotic — it is dangerous...

Today’s United States is unchallengeable in its techno-military supremacy, convinced of the superiority of its social system, and, since 1989, no longer reminded — as even the greatest conquering empires always had been — that its material power has limits. Like President Woodrow Wilson (a spectacular international failure in his day), today’s ideologues see a model society already at work in the United States: a combination of law, liberal freedoms, competitive private enterprise, and regular, contested elections with universal suffrage. All that remains is to remake the world in the image of this "free society."...

While threatening the integrity of universal values, the campaign to spread democracy will not succeed.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/23/spreading-democracy/

(I added the bold)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31441
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #6 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:27pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
This article explains it better than I ever could:   [excerpts]

We are at present engaged in what purports to be a planned reordering of the world by the powerful states. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are but one part of a supposedly universal effort to create world order by "spreading democracy." This idea is not merely quixotic — it is dangerous...

Today’s United States is unchallengeable in its techno-military supremacy, convinced of the superiority of its social system, and, since 1989, no longer reminded — as even the greatest conquering empires always had been — that its material power has limits. Like President Woodrow Wilson (a spectacular international failure in his day), today’s ideologues see a model society already at work in the United States: a combination of law, liberal freedoms, competitive private enterprise, and regular, contested elections with universal suffrage. All that remains is to remake the world in the image of this "free society."...

While threatening the integrity of universal values, the campaign to spread democracy will not succeed.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/23/spreading-democracy/

(I added the bold)
I'm still confused Chief. Some world powers want to spread democratic socialism over the entire world, and others want to spread "Western" style crony capitalism...

They look amazingly similar to me...

Isn't anybody interested in a republic with democratic representation and safeguards in place to prevent anyone (including democrats) from seizing power and tyrannizing people?

Besides libertarians I mean.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6909
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #7 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:29pm
Print Post  
I understand it's different but the truth is I've never even been against isolationism.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31441
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #8 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:33pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:29pm:
I understand it's different but the truth is I've never even been against isolationism.
I've always known you to advocate killing everyone but you and thermie.

That would make you very isolated.

Edit: I know it's a complete waste of my time to ask, but, what do you mean by isolationism?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6597
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Reply #9 - Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:40pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 8th, 2018 at 5:27pm:
I'm still confused Chief. Some world powers want to spread democratic socialism over the entire world, and others want top spread "Western" style crony capitalism...

They look amazingly similar to me...

Isn't anybody interested in a republic with democratic representation and safeguards in place to prevent anyone (including democrats) from seizing power and tyrannizing people?

Besides libertarians I mean.

IMO, no.  Democratic Socialism relies heavily on an omnipotent government. It's an ideology that asserts government can make better decisions than individuals.  The individual is only regarded as a unit part of the collective.

Which, of course, is exactly opposite of what libertarians believe.

"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › Isolationism and anti-Globalism - There's A Difference
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy