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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism (Read 240 times)
Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #20 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 4:50pm
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SicklersDink wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Excellent! That's why I've chosen you as my boss to hang with!
Taxation is necessary. Finding socially responsible ways to keep it to a minimum is the goal.

Would a prison system like Norway's do that?
In China?

Probably not, but I bet it would work in Russia! Grin

Edit: Sorry, you were talking about Baltimore?

No, it won't work there.
  
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RubyHypatia
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #21 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 5:03pm
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Most libertarians around this forum are saying that both parties are corrupt and lost causes. You seem to be placing some hope in the Republican party. Are you placing some hope in Trump too? Personally, I think he's the closest the world has ever come to Hitler and his Nazism. I can explain in detail if you're interested.


I think you're bothered that he's undoing a lot of the damage done by the Obama (your hero) administration.  And throwing around the, "Hitler" and, "Nazi" label just shows you're another hysterical regressive.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #22 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 5:03pm:
I think you're bothered that he's undoing a lot of the damage done by the Obama (your hero) administration.  And throwing around the, "Hitler" and, "Nazi" label just shows you're another hysterical regressive.
+1 Ruby. Smiley
  
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Andrew_Armao
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #23 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:59pm
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I appreciate everyone's comments! This is a great conversation not heard much in America. I would first like to answer the question of America and Rome.

Along the time of the revolutionary war, we had many parallels with the Roman Republic. We both functioned with Representitives and Assemblies. It wasn't until the Federal Government was instituted that we saw a great undermining of the State governments, undermining their power and as an institution.

Many people around that time saw the design of such a government as a fast track to a massive, low accountability government. This is very reminiscent of the European Union. This power, inevitably creates controlled markets through the issuance of Utilites, legal monopolies, and companies theft of citizens rights.

Many of these companies get big enough to buy their competition, and all that is left to buy from is four or five institutions. Are we to sit on our hands and let these companies bully small business and pay lobbyists to prescribe more regulations to crush them?

Woodrow Wilson wrote utilities into Anti-Trust law so they could legally exist. This is not Liberty, this is an Oligarchy of the highest powers, and for the freedom of the common man to be assured, Law and Order must be shown to not be a paper tiger, but to be a principle that George Washington himself respected.

Now, the question of Socialism. I see it to be an inferior form of government, and deeply believe in Liberty. The American spirit cannot be chained, innovation is what moves us as a people forward, only when we maximize Liberty, can we achieve a greater glory. Medical Care as an example would be a quarter of what it costs now if regulation was reduced and ingenuity was unleashed.
  

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thermf5
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #24 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:27pm
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Andrew_Armao wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:44am:
People are elected to the government. Although the word government implies control, we are a Republic, greatly inspired by the Roman Republic.

Our government by design will always have many seats, but government programs must be kept to a minimum. We as a society to progress forward, must look to the stars, and have a goal for the country.

Government I believe must be as small as possible. This is one of the reasons why I stress the teaching of the American made philosophy of Pragmatism. Concentrating on things that work and can be applied in a practical manner.

Holding the concept in our heads at all times, only feeding programs that bear fruit and results. Only creating programs with an end goal in sight. America is a glorious nation, and can be greater if it only embraces innovation and discovery.

Our best days are ahead of us, and that is all I want. Nationalism, is the spine that we need, and it is what Gary Johnson lacked.

i like any individual anarchist would agree we u we need to give the power to the people not invoke government but limit its power the roman repubic was a alorgarkey  the fact  u think that was a good thing u want scio-fasishism u flow the new god  positivity where is my god is the individual
  
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thermf5
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #25 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:42pm
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Andrew_Armao wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 9:03am:
The constitution is pretty definitive of what we stand for. Nothing is more stubborn, nor resilient, than the truth. The more its challenged, the more its tempered, the stronger it becomes. We all as Americans agree on how the government works, and abide by the law. The direction of the country, is chosen by the majority of a Party, which is selected by the American people. America can be greater than ever before, and that's what I want.

the type of greatness ur talking abought would be at the expense of ecominicly exploted other nations at the very best and a underclass at wost name me any empire that was not bulid on scrueing some one over also u said some thing abought the contation scrueing over the states then in this post u act like the sapreem cort dose not exsit or that there where never amentments or repals with in amendments i bet ur a rebulican that dose not know any thing of what libertian means out side of gary Johnson we want government to be useless and to let the cards fall as thay may
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #26 - Jul 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Because it's well proven that letting the government (any government) interfere in free trade works less well than allowing individuals to make their own decisions on who to trade with...

And "trade deals" made by governments involve coercion and force... Certainly you have made it clear that you oppose that.


I also don't understand why you wouldn't admit that open borders is ruinous. You argue with me every time I say open borders is morally right.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
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SicklersDink
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #27 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 12:00am
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm:
I also don't understand why you wouldn't admit that open borders is ruinous. You argue with me every time I say open borders is morally right.


I can explain the issue to you in a nuanced way Oppo. My boss isn't capable of doing that so he can't agree with you being right on 'more' open borders.

Neither of you understand the 'real' libertarian position on open borders. You haven't had it explained to you!

And it has nothing to do with the Chief's ignorant and selfish idea of charging immigrants a fee. The libertarian party would chase the silly fkr away if he ever said that at one of those tailgate meetings where they burn a cross.

P-l's are more likely to take the immigrants money and then string him, his wife, and his kids up in a tree.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #28 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:15am
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RubyHypatia wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:39am:
There you go again, Jeff, being contradictory. The guy just means that it would be good if our politicians in Washington were libertarians.  I got that, but you read more into his post than what was there.


I also read more into this post than it was be good if it was a libertarian government. Maybe that is because he said a lot more.

He referred to the Roman Empire. Yes it was an Empire, which means colonies. Rome was a colonial empire that conquered other peoples to bring them under control for their exploitation. Yes it was a slave owning society. It was a patriarchy. It usually was a military dictatorship with generals competing for political power.

I really had no idea of what he meant about tariffs being a good thing. He obviously never drove an American K car or tried to adjust the color on an old GE color tv. He assumes tariffs protect American jobs. Maybe he owns a  horse drawn carriage factory and wants to buy American made buggy whips.

I  thought Jeff was very patient and thoughtful in his response to the idea of  American Libertarian Nationalism.
  
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #29 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:03am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 2:39pm:
Other than the need for a capable national defense and a government that is worthy of the respect of the majority of the people, nationalism is not something we need.


The primary threat to my personal freedom are my own wants, desires and needs.

My biological requirements such as  food, shelter and security are necessities, so I am betrayed by my own biological existence. Maybe I could hunt and grow my own food, and live in a cave. But even early man lived in tribes, and tribes have evolved into national states. We Humans from Earth  have evolved from natural beings to become social beings.

To fulfill or satisfy these desires and needs I must make a contract with other free individuals for their skills, services, labor to provide me with the stuff I want and need. Security, food, shelter, healing when I am sick, education, a new Lamborghini. The list goes on and on until one day I wonder where my ability to live by the exercise of my own free will  has disappeared to. It is the social contract that is Government and is the threat to our freedoms.

It is this very contract that is the start of limitations and constraints on my freedom (and also the person's liberty that I contract with) Nationalism, willing participation in the National State, is not the same thing as accepting the subjugation of your liberty to the National state to the minimal amount necessary.

This is why I agree with Jeff that Nationalism is not compatible with a libertarian philosophy.
  
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