Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism (Read 242 times)
Andrew_Armao
Junior Member
**
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 4th, 2018
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #30 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 4:06am
Print Post  
goodbye wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:15am:
I also read more into this post than it was be good if it was a libertarian government. Maybe that is because he said a lot more.

He referred to the Roman Empire. Yes it was an Empire, which means colonies. Rome was a colonial empire that conquered other peoples to bring them under control for their exploitation. Yes it was a slave owning society. It was a patriarchy. It usually was a military dictatorship with generals competing for political power.

I really had no idea of what he meant about tariffs being a good thing. He obviously never drove an American K car or tried to adjust the color on an old GE color tv. He assumes tariffs protect American jobs. Maybe he owns a  horse drawn carriage factory and wants to buy American made buggy whips.

I  thought Jeff was very patient and thoughtful in his response to the idea of  American Libertarian Nationalism.


China and Mexico take advantage of their currencies being worth alot less. They sell their items for dollars in America and pocket the money to build more factories. They can make something for 2 Peso and sell for 20 dollars, while in the US its built for 30, and would sell for at least 60.

How can a American company compete with something built in a country were there money's value is garbage?
  

Andrew J Armao
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #31 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:44am
Print Post  
Andrew_Armao wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:59pm:
It wasn't until the Federal Government was instituted that we saw a great undermining of the State governments, undermining their power and as an institution.

That's revisionist history. State governments retained most of their power, including their power to resist the national government, right up until the 17th Amendment democratized the election of U.S. Senators.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #32 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:47am
Print Post  
Andrew_Armao wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 8:59pm:
Many people around that time saw the design of such a government as a fast track to a massive, low accountability government. This is very reminiscent of the European Union. This power, inevitably creates controlled markets through the issuance of Utilites, legal monopolies, and companies theft of citizens rights.

More tripe. It wasn't until "progressives" 'discovered' the commerce clause to be a general power that the national government did the nasty things you mentioned.

And what specifically do you mean by "theft of citizens rights" by companies?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #33 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:52am
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 10:50pm:
I also don't understand why you wouldn't admit that open borders is ruinous. You argue with me every time I say open borders is morally right.
I constantly say that open borders in the world as it is is a bad and dangerous idea.

I agree that people have a right to travel freely, but do not believe that includes the right to trespass, and consider a nations power to control entry as analogous to a homeowners right to prohibit trespass.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #34 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:53am
Print Post  
goodbye wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 3:15am:
I also read more into this post than it was be good if it was a libertarian government. Maybe that is because he said a lot more.

He referred to the Roman Empire. Yes it was an Empire, which means colonies. Rome was a colonial empire that conquered other peoples to bring them under control for their exploitation. Yes it was a slave owning society. It was a patriarchy. It usually was a military dictatorship with generals competing for political power.

I really had no idea of what he meant about tariffs being a good thing. He obviously never drove an American K car or tried to adjust the color on an old GE color tv. He assumes tariffs protect American jobs. Maybe he owns a  horse drawn carriage factory and wants to buy American made buggy whips.

I  thought Jeff was very patient and thoughtful in his response to the idea of  American Libertarian Nationalism.
Thanks, I was/am trying to be.

Trade protectionism is a common nationalistic idea, and people still fall for the idea that restricting trade will make them better off. They probably wouldn't like it at all if their town started limiting what they could buy and increasing the prices of imports into the town.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Opposition
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 6913
Joined: Apr 30th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #35 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:52am:
I constantly say that open borders in the world as it is is a bad and dangerous idea.


Then you see the point here. Sometimes, illiberal policy is necessary to protect liberty.
  

Making Sci-Fi great again since 2063.

Not taking Jeff seriously until he admits this is animal abuse (which he says should be illegal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE-IT7_CaE4
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #36 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 2:28pm
Print Post  
The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
Then you see the point here. Sometimes, illiberal policy is necessary to protect liberty.
Why tell me? I've been constantly hammered by people on this forum for advocating for limited government to protect rights and liberty..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
goodbye
Libertarian Full Member
***
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 76
Joined: Jun 25th, 2018
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #37 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:14pm
Print Post  
Andrew_Armao wrote on Jul 10th, 2018 at 6:53am:
I look back to the Roman Republic. Oh what great arts, what glory. The most brilliant of minds, philosophers, men delving into the deepest reaches of ourselves, helping understand, the earliest conceptions of who we are.

The more money that is in our economy, the more markets there are.



The Roman arts and philosophy are generally considered inferior to and derivative of Greek Civilizations in Athens. It is Athens, its art, philosophy and culture that is considered the birth place of Western Civilization. Maybe you are confusing the two.

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle are all Greeks. It is wise to remember that Socrates committed committed suicide because the democrats came to power in Athens. He considered it rule of the mob.

Money supply in the economy, M1 and M2, is measure against the value of goods and services, credit availability and velocity of movement of money through the economy. More money or too much money that creates an imbalance leads to inflation (a hidden tax), high interest rates on credit and eventually hyper inflation like you see in Venezuela today and Germany after WW1.

You seem to have your own personal school or interpretation of history and economic theory.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 31470
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #38 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:04pm
Print Post  
goodbye wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 5:14pm:
It is wise to remember that Socrates committed committed suicide because the democrats came to power in Athens.
I thought he chose suicide over exile?

Edit: The Roman Republic wasn't that bad, other than that only aristocrats got to make decisions, and even then, that seemed to work pretty well for quite a while.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 780
Location: British Columbia
Joined: Jun 21st, 2018
Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #39 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 7:52am:
I constantly say that open borders in the world as it is is a bad and dangerous idea.

I agree that people have a right to travel freely, but do not believe that includes the right to trespass, and consider a nations power to control entry as analogous to a homeowners right to prohibit trespass.


Are you sure a homeowner has a right to travel. Can you let me know?
Thanks.
  

I was Don G. but Craig owns me now.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy