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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism (Read 2104 times)
Dual Guy
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #40 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 8:40pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 6:04pm:
I thought he chose suicide over exile?

He was not offered that choice. But he did not ask for it either, and it is speculated that he would have been offered it if he had asked for it.

It was common practice to allow notable citizens to drink the cup of hemlock as an alternative to execution if they had been sentenced to death.

Why didn't he ask for exile instead of a death sentence? Was it because he would rather die than be banished from Athens, or because he detested the democrats so much that he would not ask them for anything and would rather die than live in a world where democrats ruled Athens?

I don't know if history has answered that question. The only thing we know about the thoughts of Socrates is through the writings of others because he left no written records himself.
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #41 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:35pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Why tell me? I've been constantly hammered by people on this forum for advocating for limited government to protect rights and liberty..


But here's the thing... At that point you want practical liberty. You want liberty that actually brings you a benefit, not a pie in the sky that entails sticking to the principles the best.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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SicklersDink
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #42 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:47pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:35pm:
But here's the thing... At that point you want practical liberty. You want liberty that actually brings you a benefit, not a pie in the sky that entails sticking to the principles the best.


I like to hear you use the 'pie in the sky' term for libertarian ideals lizard.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #43 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 8:37am
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:35pm:
But here's the thing... At that point you want practical liberty. You want liberty that actually brings you a benefit, not a pie in the sky that entails sticking to the principles the best.
No, I want practical means of securing liberty for as many people as possible, and I believe that strictly limited government is the most practical means of securing liberty, even though government is inherently illiberal.

Taxing people to secure their liberty through a limited government seems intuitively wrong, but it is the best means known to do it.

What do you mean by "practical liberty"?
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #44 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 8:39am
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I like to hear you use the 'pie in the sky' term for libertarian ideals lizard.
It is only "pie in the sky" when you imagine "pure" liberty existing with no government, a "pure" world full of "pure" NAP followers. Cheesy
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #45 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 11:16am
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Jeff wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 8:39am:
It is only "pie in the sky" when you imagine "pure" liberty existing with no government, a "pure" world full of "pure" NAP followers. Cheesy


Libertarians of the sort on this forum want to talk about being there and they have no interest in any talk of ways to get there.

You still should check out my thread on how big business steals buckets full of money from the people.
  
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Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #46 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 1:33pm
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Libertarians of the sort on this forum want to talk about being there and they have no interest in any talk of ways to get there.
Anarchists? They talk all the time about abolishing taxes which will effectively eliminate government.

Why subscribe to the confused idea that anarchists are libertarians?
  
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The Opposition
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #47 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm
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Jeff wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 8:37am:
No, I want practical means of securing liberty for as many people as possible, and I believe that strictly limited government is the most practical means of securing liberty, even though government is inherently illiberal.

Taxing people to secure their liberty through a limited government seems intuitively wrong, but it is the best means known to do it.

What do you mean by "practical liberty"?


I mean it as opposed to a pie in the sky where you select anarchy because there is nothing illiberal about it.

You want actual freedom, that brings you an actual benefit. You don't care about pie in the sky freedom that is the objectively best policy from a "never violate rights ever" point of view because the world will turn shitty, and you want a world you can enjoy living in and enjoy exercising your freedom.
  

This moral relativism of yours is exactly what lets government take this freedom, then that freedom, until we have lost them all.
-SnarkySack
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Jeff
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #48 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:52pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
I mean it as opposed to a pie in the sky where you select anarchy because there is nothing illiberal about it.

You want actual freedom, that brings you an actual benefit. You don't care about pie in the sky freedom that is the objectively best policy from a "never violate rights ever" point of view because the world will turn shitty, and you want a world you can enjoy living in and enjoy exercising your freedom.
That's pretty much it. (I'll read this again later, after I start to "go off" Grin)
  
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thermf5
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Re: The Case for Nationalist Libertarianism
Reply #49 - Jul 12th, 2018 at 4:58pm
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The Opposition wrote on Jul 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
I mean it as opposed to a pie in the sky where you select anarchy because there is nothing illiberal about it.

You want actual freedom, that brings you an actual benefit. You don't care about pie in the sky freedom that is the objectively best policy from a "never violate rights ever" point of view because the world will turn shitty, and you want a world you can enjoy living in and enjoy exercising your freedom.

what i enjoy doing would be imoral to most people i dont want to volate any ones rights but what i belive should be rights are not right to most people i want an end to ageism and aresstion to do that there cant be tribes  or family values but people that think the same way in a area that is sovereign that people chouse to live in let the comiies or any other belive system have there land and every one else can have there a divided states of america if u will
  
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