Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money. (Read 566 times)
SicklersDink
Ex Member


The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Jul 11th, 2018 at 12:38am
Print Post  
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/09/how-the-u-s-spends-more-h...

How the U.S. spends more helping its citizens than other rich countries, but gets way less.

This is why the US must some day be led kicking and screaming into the circle of wealthy first world nations that understand 'social responsibility.'

This article explains the many ways the US could stop cheating its taxpayers out of their beloved money!  Kiss

It can happen! Although it's likely going to require a move away from racist attitudes before 'all' the people can benefit.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Ex Member


Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #1 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:11am
Print Post  
This is one I posted especially for Dual Guy so he could make some excuses why all those comparisoos against the US aren't true.

Socially responsible capitalism, which is really just libertarianism without the impossible bullshit, is obviously the way to saving the taxpayer's dollars.

How did we ever get so far off track with this pseudo-libertarianism the chief keeps barking about?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7486
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #2 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:17am
Print Post  
I have a much better plan for the US to stop cheating its taxpayers out of their beloved money!

Abolish the Income Tax!

Easy peasy.     It would work, too.

All of these countries have figured out a way to run their governments without Income Taxes:

• United Arab Emirates
• Oman
• Bahrain
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Kuwait
• Bermuda
• Cayman Islands
• The Bahamas
• Brunei

The US needs to ask these countries how they manage to do this.  There is hope for libertarians!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Ex Member


Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #3 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:27am
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:17am:
I have a much better plan for the US to stop cheating its taxpayers out of their beloved money!

Abolish the Income Tax!

Easy peasy.     It would work, too.

All of these countries have figured out a way to run their governments without Income Taxes:

• United Arab Emirates
• Oman
• Bahrain
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Kuwait
• Bermuda
• Cayman Islands
• The Bahamas
• Brunei

The US needs to ask these countries how they manage to do this.  There is hope for libertarians!


No need to ask any of those countries. The US already knows the answer you goof. The first six all have more oil than they need. And the rest have huge incomes that make the need for taxing the people unnecessary.

All the answers were in the link I posted. Take your time thinking on it, it's the American people's money that private business is pissing away.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7486
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #4 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:45am
Print Post  
Quote:
No need to ask any of those countries. The US already knows the answer you goof. The first six all have more oil than they need. And the rest have huge incomes that make the need for taxing the people unnecessary.
Very well, then.  We just need more oil.  There are billions of barrels of untapped oil in the US.  We just need to pump it out, and then abolish the Income Tax.    Smiley

Quote:
All the answers were in the link I posted. Take your time thinking on it, it's the American people's money that private business is pissing away.

I'm unable to read the link you posted.  I need to be a WaPo subscriber to view the article.   Cry

The Irresponsible Teenager Syndrome

Parent(s) give a teenager a credit card.  It is to be used responsibly, and not squandered on silly,  frivilous things.  Teenager accepts credit card and promises to use it responsibly.

Naturally, before long, the teenager has run up a MOUNTAIN of debt on the card, and has practically nothing to show for the purchases.  The teenager had loaned the card to his/her friends!!  *facepalm*

The expectation of responsibility was broken, and a remedy is called for.  Solution?

Take away the credit card.   DONE.  Problem solved.

Same with US Government (irresponsible teenager).  They have violated the trust of the US Taxpayer (Parent) to spend the Taxpayer's money responsibly.

The only solution is for the Taxpayers to take away the government's credit card (Income Tax).

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Ex Member


Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #5 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 12:25pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:45am:
Very well, then.  We just need more oil.  There are billions of barrels of untapped oil in the US.  We just need to pump it out, and then abolish the Income Tax.    Smiley

I'm unable to read the link you posted.  I need to be a WaPo subscriber to view the article.   Cry


You've got the idea now. Sell oil or anything to other countries to make your country rich, then start lowering income tax. Alberta, Canada has already started to do that years ago because of it's oil resources.

And off the topic a little but that's the reason the US has been waging wars all over the world for control of oil resources. The endgame is to be rich enough to sustain the US.

So when the US wins all it's war and stands alone all powerful, with no competition from other large and powerful countries, your dream may start coming true. Pretty simple right? Let us know when it starts to happen!

I have no WP subscription and I read it. You already started objecting to what it said in your first post on this thread.

The truth is chief, when the cold war ended the US had the opportunity to start lowering income taxes. Now it's more impossible than it's ever been.

Everybody agrees with your idea of eliminating taxation of all kinds chief. It's obvious nobody wants to pay any taxes.

It's just that it's so childish to expect that it could ever happen. That's the reason why I try to show you how the rest of the world's wealthy countries have methods to 'reduce' taxation.

I can lead you horses to water, ........................
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7486
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #6 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 12:50pm
Print Post  
Quote:
I have no WP subscription and I read it. You already started objecting to what it said in your first post on this thread.

This pops up in a message box when I click on the link you posted:

We're glad you're enjoying
The Washington Post.
Get access to this story, and every story, on the web and in our apps with our Basic Digital subscription.
Keep reading for $10
View features

Quote:
The truth is chief, when the cold war ended the US had the opportunity to start lowering income taxes. Now it's more impossible than it's ever been.
The truth is, Dink, the Cold War never ended.

Russia spent a higher portion of its GDP on defense than the U.S. in 2013. The Cold War is alive and well, thank you.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/cold-war-never-ended/395243...


Quote:
It's obvious nobody wants to pay any taxes.

It's just that it's so childish to expect that it could ever happen.

Libertarians understand that it is aggression when the gov't takes money/wealth from productive people and then re-distributes it to non-productive people.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Ex Member


Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #7 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Jul 11th, 2018 at 11:45am:
Very well, then.  We just need more oil.  There are billions of barrels of untapped oil in the US.  We just need to pump it out, and then abolish the Income Tax.    Smiley

I'm unable to read the link you posted.  I need to be a WaPo subscriber to view the article.   Cry

The Irresponsible Teenager Syndrome

Parent(s) give a teenager a credit card.  It is to be used responsibly, and not squandered on silly,  frivilous things.  Teenager accepts credit card and promises to use it responsibly.

Naturally, before long, the teenager has run up a MOUNTAIN of debt on the card, and has practically nothing to show for the purchases.  The teenager had loaned the card to his/her friends!!  *facepalm*

The expectation of responsibility was broken, and a remedy is called for.  Solution?

Take away the credit card.   DONE.  Problem solved.

Same with US Government (irresponsible teenager).  They have violated the trust of the US Taxpayer (Parent) to spend the Taxpayer's money responsibly.

The only solution is for the Taxpayers to take away the government's credit card (Income Tax).



I missed this one earlier. Good one but you didn't have to go to all that bother for me. Some things are obvious for adults you know.

For about the 10,000th. time, your government is corrupt and irresponsible. And for the nth time, let me know when the people get interested in the fix the libertarian party has planned.

---------------------------------

We’re glad you’re enjoying The Washington Post. You’re almost out of free articles for this month. Already a subscriber? Sign inSubscribe for $1Send me this offer×

Wonkblog
How the U.S. spends more helping its citizens than other rich countries, but gets way less
By Ana Swanson
April 9, 2015

A new report says the real waste isn't in food stamps but with tax breaks that subsidize spending on things like health care and housing. (Photo by Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images)
The public places lots of scrutiny on the services that the government delivers to poor people: Witness the recent outrage over welfare recipients eating steak, visiting swimming pools, and driving a Mercedes while receiving public funds. But a new study argues that the real waste in the American system comes not from welfare programs like food stamps, but from widespread tax breaks that subsidize spending on things like health care and housing.

Jacob Funk Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the non-partisan Peterson Institute for International Economics, argues in a new report that once you take these kinds of tax breaks into account, the U.S. actually devotes far more resources than many other countries to “social spending” -- spending on pensions, health care, family support, unemployment, housing assistance, and similar benefits meant to help people out in hard times. And, compared with most advanced countries, the U.S. gets far less bang for its buck in terms of health outcomes and equality.

As the chart below shows, the U.S. government spends only about 19 percent of GDP on this kind of social spending, compared with around 20-31 percent for various European countries. But even when the U.S. government lets the private sector provide certain social benefits, like health insurance, it still “pays” for it in a certain sense through tax breaks, Kirkegaard argues.


The U.S. offers huge amounts of what Kirkegaard calls “tax breaks for social purposes,” including the Earned Income Tax Credit, tax-exempt pension contributions, and new tax breaks for Americans to buy health insurance. In contrast, many European governments give services or cash benefits directly to their citizens, but then take some of that money back by taxing those cash benefits, or the person’s spending more generally.


Once you take those tax flows into account, how much different countries spend on social services changes dramatically. Including tax flows, Kirkegaard estimates that the U.S. government spends 20.8 percent of GDP on social services, which is just 3.2 percentage points lower than the EU average, and higher than Canada and Norway. Basically, the trans-Atlantic divide disappears.

But to really compare countries, you have to take a final step and add in what people are spending on social services without any government support, says Kirkegaard. Setting aside any ideological beliefs about the size and function of the government, this approach allows you to see how efficient a given level of spending is in providing services in different countries.

Once you add in that private social spending and the effect of taxes, it changes the ranking entirely. Now the U.S. devotes more to social spending than Sweden, the U.K., Germany, and Denmark – actually, every other advanced country except France. “The US ‘welfare state’ might be relatively small, but that doesn’t mean that total social spending is low in the United States,” Kirkegaard writes.


Peterson Institute for International Economics
So the U.S. actually spends a lot on social benefits – and, the paper goes on to argue, we aren’t getting that much of a return on our investment. Kirkegaard goes on to present a bunch of charts that make the U.S. look like a crazy outlier in its heavy spending on health care and its poor results.


For example, here is average healthcare spending per capita graphed against potential years of life lost among men, a measure of premature death. For most countries, premature death among men falls as spending goes up. But the U.S. is off on its own, spending way more than comparable countries but roughly in the middle of the pack for mortality.


Peterson Institute for International Economics
That same graph looks even worse for women. Premature death for women in the U.S. is about on par with Mexico, which spends just $858 on health care per capita compared with nearly $8,000 per capita in the U.S.


Peterson Institute for International Economics
The situation is similar for infant mortality, with far more spent for middling results:


Peterson Institute for International Economics
By all of these measures, the U.S. is an outlier, with a relatively expensive and ineffective health care system. As the charts show, greater spending in the private sector in the U.S. generally hasn’t resulted in a more effective healthcare system.


There’s a clear political rationale behind the American system of giving people tax breaks on their health care spending, rather than having the government give them health care: The public pays fewer taxes, and the government doesn’t appear to be spending money.

But the Peterson study suggests this system merely hides the true level of government spending. Tax breaks for lunches eaten on business trips are rarely given the same amount of scrutiny as the use of food stamps at the grocery store, but the ultimate cost to the government is the same.

The American system also does less to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor, since the private sector mostly depends on individuals and households to spend money, and people can’t spend money they don’t have, says Kirkegaard. The result is that the U.S. spends a lot on social services, and still has relatively high levels of inequality, as this chart shows.


Peterson Institute for International Economics
So when people fixate on welfare programs like food stamps, they miss how the U.S. government actually spends the bulk of its money trying to help families—money that, based on this report, could be spent a lot more efficiently.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SicklersDink
Ex Member


Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #8 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 1:09pm
Print Post  
Sorry all the graphs doesn't copy and paste, but you'll get the drift of it anyway.

The graphs would just depress you because it shows US spending in stark contrast to how little the rest of the world's rich countries spend
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7486
Location: California Coast
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Reply #9 - Jul 11th, 2018 at 1:22pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Sorry all the graphs doesn't copy and paste, but you'll get the drift of it anyway.

The graphs would just depress you because it shows US spending in stark contrast to how little the rest of the world's rich countries spend

Ok,, thanks for posting the article so I could read it.

I think we both agree that Congress is corrupt, and squanders Taxpayer's money.

Our disagreement is the remedy.

You say that it should be allowed to continue, and I say by abolishing Income Tax, the corruption and cronyism will stop.  It has to. 

"If Congress has no money to spend, they'll have no money to squander." - SkyChief
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The US is Spending Buckets Full of Money.
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy