Libertarian's Forum
Libertarian Forum to discuss politics and free market economics.
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Future is Libertarian
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 13 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Future is Libertarian (Read 1077 times)
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 614
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #70 - Aug 2nd, 2018 at 7:58pm
Print Post  
Thank you, Andrew, for a heart felt essay.

The core corrupting process is the control of money and financial markets by a coalition of top bankers and politicians.  America is only the latest global empire forged with this alliance.  Spain, the Netherlands, and Britain preceded and were easily as grand as the USA, if not more so.

What this alliance does is to move from country to country, inflating one national bubble after another, using the control of money, state power, media narratives, and military force to allow the current global top dog to receive unearned wealth and power.

But this very process sets up incentives for the top dog to lose its strength.  Inevitably, every global empire declines, with the outward sign being its unpayable debt.

The big problem is that not many people understand how the imperial system works (and even fewer understand how money really works, at the core of this system,) and so even democracies allow this cabal to operate.  (Just for a quick example, the US just killed six-figures of people by starting a war in Syria to send a message of not messing with the empire.  With almost complete impunity.)

The only medicine, IMO, is a long term campaign of educating the public.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #71 - Aug 2nd, 2018 at 8:07pm
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Aug 2nd, 2018 at 7:58pm:
America is only the latest global empire forged with this alliance.  Spain, the Netherlands, and Britain preceded and were easily as grand as the USA, if not more so.

What this alliance does is to move from country to country, inflating one national bubble after another, using the control of money, state power, media narratives, and military force to allow the current global top dog to receive unearned wealth and power.

Is there currently a government in the world that doesn't have its own Central Bank?

Why doesn't it work for everyone?

BTW, "national bubble" is a curious image.

Can you please explain how a "national bubble" gives power to a nations "elites"? In layman's terms? Thanks.

What about the "elites" that were shot or hung or beheaded for being in power" when the bubbles burst?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ahhell
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 2088
Joined: Sep 21st, 2016
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #72 - Aug 3rd, 2018 at 9:54am
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Is there currently a government in the world that doesn't have its own Central Bank?

There are a few countries that use the US dollar as their currency too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_central_banks#Countries_without_central_ba...

Looks like a few city states don't.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #73 - Aug 3rd, 2018 at 6:11pm
Print Post  
ahhell wrote on Aug 3rd, 2018 at 9:54am:
There are a few countries that use the US dollar as their currency too. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_central_banks#Countries_without_central_ba...

Looks like a few city states don't.
I think calling most of those countries "city states" is an exaggeration. Maybe misnomer is a better word... Nauru barely qualifies as a large town...

Do they have a bank at all?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 614
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #74 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 2:11pm
Print Post  
Jeff wrote on Aug 2nd, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Is there currently a government in the world that doesn't have its own Central Bank?

Why doesn't it work for everyone?

BTW, "national bubble" is a curious image.

Can you please explain how a "national bubble" gives power to a nations "elites"? In layman's terms? Thanks.

What about the "elites" that were shot or hung or beheaded for being in power" when the bubbles burst?


That every country has a central bank doesn't mean it's a just system.  I suspect a regime won't last long at all if it decides to use physical gold and silver as money.

A national bubble for the US (or for Britain in the 19th century) creates a positive image of the country in the eyes of the world.  This allows the country's elites to issue money and debt the world will accept as valuable.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7209
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #75 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 2:57pm
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
That every country has a central bank doesn't mean it's a just system.  I suspect a regime won't last long at all if it decides to use physical gold and silver as money.

A national bubble for the US (or for Britain in the 19th century) creates a positive image of the country in the eyes of the world.  This allows the country's elites to issue money and debt the world will accept as valuable.

What a bleak vision for the future!   Perpetual debt until death - where the debt is then transferred to the surviving family. 

Nice for the banks!   They just kick back, and watch the interest from their fiat loans come rolling in.

Sad for the borrowers, though. They will never get out of debt.  The Bank will make damn sure of that.

TJ had brighter visions:

“And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. " - Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."  - Thomas Jefferson
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 614
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #76 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 3:59pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 2:57pm:
What a bleak vision for the future!   Perpetual debt until death - where the debt is then transferred to the surviving family. 

Nice for the banks!   They just kick back, and watch the interest from their fiat loans come rolling in.

Sad for the borrowers, though. They will never get out of debt.  The Bank will make damn sure of that.

TJ had brighter visions:

“And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. " - Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."  - Thomas Jefferson


Right, the burden of moral obligation to repay debt is really only imposed on the powerless.  In fact, rigorously imposed.  And so 'rigorous' for poor countries that we force them to borrow in the first place!  (See 'Confessions of An Economic Hit Man.')

Unfortunately, debt serfdom now afflicts many powerless Americans as well, which I'm sure is part of the disenchantment with the status quo.

My admiration for TJ started slowly, back when I was a full believer in America, its 'free enterprise system,' and 'democracy.'  Someone who was anti-establishment in philosophy said that Jefferson had a profound belief in freedom, and somehow that stuck.

I hate to be gloomy, but even though the Jeffersonian school successfully killed off two American central banks, it turned out to be no match for global financiers, by 1913 at the latest.

I totally agree with Jefferson in the sense that freedom in this world means a certain degree of poverty.  I would also add (and I've been pounding the table here) it also means trade isolationism (which was also practiced to a great extent by the US until the mid-to-late 19th century.)  Why is China under our thumb to the point of enduring Trump's repeated insults (at least until yesterday!)?  Trade -- not just the clear problem of needing American consumers, but also the problem of the resulting debt bubble and instability in China itself.

I am hopeful, though, for the very long term, that people will eventually wake up, and not in an emotional kill-them-all manner (because that would just replace one set of elites with another,) but in a reasoned, these-are-the-real-ways-to-guard-property-rights kind of way.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SkyChief
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 7209
Joined: Aug 18th, 2014
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #77 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 4:20pm
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 3:59pm:
Unfortunately, debt serfdom now afflicts many powerless Americans as well, which I'm sure is part of the disenchantment with the status quo...


I hate to be gloomy, but even though the Jeffersonian school successfully killed off two American central banks, it turned out to be no match for global financiers, by 1913 at the latest.

The debt death-spiral began in 1971 when Nixon took the US off the Gold Standard. Overnight, the dollar went from a sound currency to a fiat currency.  Bretton Woods was nullified.

This allowed Fed to print money - as much as they want.  And they did!   They flooded the money supply with fiat dollars and rampant inflation became the norm.  Wages couldn't keep up, and the middle-class - the Americans that were expected to do the heavy-lifting - saw they had less and less discretionary money to spend.  They borrowed and borrowed and got 2nd and 3rd mortgages.   They became slaves of debt.

The federal minimum wage was $1.60 in 1968. It’s $7.25 today (353% higher in dollar terms)

But that $7.25 buys 87% less than $1.60 did back in 1968!

This is why millennials and millions of other Americans are gravitating toward socialism.

They feel the economic pain of inflation every day.  Handouts like UBI and free college suddenly look attractive.

Ron Paul (and Thomas Jefferson) was right  -  End the Fed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BobK71
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 614
Joined: Jun 12th, 2015
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #78 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 5:00pm
Print Post  
SkyChief wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 4:20pm:
The debt death-spiral began in 1971 when Nixon took the US off the Gold Standard. Overnight, the dollar went from a sound currency to a fiat currency.  Bretton Woods was nullified.

This allowed Fed to print money - as much as they want.  And they did!   They flooded the money supply with fiat dollars and rampant inflation became the norm.  Wages couldn't keep up, and the middle-class - the Americans that were expected to do the heavy-lifting - saw they had less and less discretionary money to spend.  They borrowed and borrowed and got 2nd and 3rd mortgages.   They became slaves of debt.

The federal minimum wage was $1.60 in 1968. It’s $7.25 today (353% higher in dollar terms)

But that $7.25 buys 87% less than $1.60 did back in 1968!

This is why millennials and millions of other Americans are gravitating toward socialism.

They feel the economic pain of inflation every day.  Handouts like UBI and free college suddenly look attractive.

Ron Paul (and Thomas Jefferson) was right  -  End the Fed.


There is a certain discipline that comes with a metallic standard for money, I would agree.  But this is only as compared to our crazy 'fiat' system.  In its own right, the metallic standard was a powerful extractor of wealth in favor of the elites and an engine of instability.  There's a reason the Fed was the guardian of the gold standard for 50+ years (and the Bank of England for 200+ years.)

The really key question is, is state power (in alliance with the financial savvy of bankers) used in manipulating the prices of money and other financial assets?

Proponents of the gold standard today will run into valid criticism by establishment economists based on its history.  They won't mention that the 'fiat' system is most probably worse overall, though in a somewhat different way.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jeff
Libertarian Freedom Member
*****
Offline

Libertarian's Forum

Posts: 32535
Location: USA
Joined: Feb 26th, 2014
Re: The Future is Libertarian
Reply #79 - Aug 6th, 2018 at 5:12pm
Print Post  
BobK71 wrote on Aug 6th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
That every country has a central bank doesn't mean it's a just system.  I suspect a regime won't last long at all if it decides to use physical gold and silver as money.

You're such a hoot Bob! Thanks. Smiley

Far from being just, Central Banks have always been and still are seen to be necessary if any government is to be able to control a national economy effectively! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 13
Send TopicPrint
 
Libertarian's ForumLibertarian's ForumFreedom Forum › The Future is Libertarian
Libertarian's Forum

Libertarian's Forum Information Rules, Agreement and Privacy Policy