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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING (Read 1999 times)
ahhell
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #10 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 1:08pm
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As is typical, your post seems to be largely a non sequitur.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #11 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 1:23pm
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ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 1:08pm:
As is typical, your post seems to be largely a non sequitur.


I thought you would be able to grasp the relationship to what I said and the topic.

Democratic Socialism is not surging. That's a misnomer for what seems to be threatening and did threaten with Bernie.

One little woman is not a threat, especially when she will be made out to be a commie and it will stick.

But the iron is in the fire and the possibility of the people starting to see the advantage of socially responsible capitalism is threatening to the powers that be.

Expressing anger at my attempts for discussion is quite childish ahhell. Try a counter argument based on libertarian principles, if you have such things?
  
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ahhell
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #12 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm
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I was expressing only befuddlement, any anger you perceived illusory.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #13 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:16pm
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ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
I was expressing only befuddlement, any anger you perceived illusory. 


If there was anything you didn't understand then let me know.

I think the problem is that you don't want to draw back the curtain and see the Wonderful Wizard for what America has become.

Resistance is normal. It's your country!
  
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ahhell
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #14 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:26pm
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What I don't understand is how any of this:Quote:
I think the US ran out of ways to make the free market work, due to lack of ability to compete on a level playing field. Now Trump has resorted to illegal and unfair trade sanctions against China and even the US's allies. That's a move away from what you suggest.

Obama improved the economy immensely when he took over from Bush2 but it apparently wasn't sustainable. I would blame the US system.

Trump is improving the economy with methods that are not only unsustainable but destructive and warlike. It's going to be resisted by the rest of the world's economies.

If there is any success in Trump's methods then it going to come at a price that no preaceful nation would ever want to pay.

Although the comparison to Nazi Germany isn't exact, it's close enough to be used as an explanation of what Trump is doing.

Currently a discussion is ongoing in North Dakota as to whether they will feel enough pain over the Soy bean Trump fiasco, to change the vote to the Dems.

Back and forth between two corrupt parties, the US swings!
Follows from the post you quoted:


ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 9:17am:
As I've said before, our role now should be damage control.  Things like universal health care are inevitable so I think we should try and direct the conversation towards more market based or at least more state based systems. 

Literally, your post does not follow from the post you quoted.

And of course the US doesn't have a free market in health care, we barely have a market at all.

Also, this seemed to be a non sequitur.
Quote:
I thought you would be able to grasp the relationship to what I said and the topic.

Democratic Socialism is not surging. That's a misnomer for what seems to be threatening and did threaten with Bernie.

One little woman is not a threat, especially when she will be made out to be a commie and it will stick.

But the iron is in the fire and the possibility of the people starting to see the advantage of socially responsible capitalism is threatening to the powers that be.

Expressing anger at my attempts for discussion is quite childish ahhell. Try a counter argument based on libertarian principles, if you have such things?
As it also didn't really follow from the post you quoted.  There is a condition called apophenia, in which a person sees connections to between unrelated things or events.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #15 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:37pm
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ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:26pm:
What I don't understand is how any of this:
Follows from the post you quoted:


Literally, your post does not follow from the post you quoted.

And of course the US doesn't have a free market in health care, we barely have a market at all.


Excuse me if I didn't understand that you're promoting universal government run health care. Are you?

And if you are then can you make an argument for it being consistent with libertarian principles?

To return to Democratic Socialism, I repeat that it's not socialism that is surging. Canada isn't a socialist country and the US is far from us on socially responsible government.

The Scandinavian countries aren't even socialist. Socialism and communism differ slightly and that would make a good topic for conversation.
  
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ahhell
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #16 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:47pm
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Quote:
Excuse me if I didn't understand that you're promoting universal government run health care. Are you?
No, but I know it is inevitable and some solutions are better and less paternalistic than others. Quote:
And if you are then can you make an argument for it being consistent with libertarian principles?
Not really but since we are heading there anyway and already pay for we may aswell get our money's worth. Quote:
To return to Democratic Socialism, I repeat that it's not socialism that is surging. Canada isn't a socialist country and the US is far from us on socially responsible government.

The Scandinavian countries aren't even socialist. Socialism and communism differ slightly and that would make a good topic for conversation.
Talking about capitalism and socialism as though they are mutually exclusive is a false dichotomy.  Sort of.  Sure, real socialism is incompatible with capitalism but all western societies are mixed economies with elements of socialism and capitalism and only a few cranks advocate for true socialism anymore.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #17 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm
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ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 2:47pm:
No, but I know it is inevitable and some solutions are better and less paternalistic than others.
Not really but since we are heading there anyway and already pay for we may aswell get our money's worth.
Talking about capitalism and socialism as though they are mutually exclusive is a false dichotomy.  Sort of. 


So you see the good in universal health care approaching but you still don't support it even though you know it's coming?

??

Quote:
Sure, real socialism is incompatible with capitalism but all western societies are mixed economies with elements of socialism and capitalism and only a few cranks advocate for true socialism anymore.


YES!

And thank you so much ahhell! Now maybe we can think of a name for it?

S-c--l-y
R---on--b-e
C-p--al-sm

Might work?
  
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ahhell
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #18 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 5:40pm
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Quote:
So you see the good in universal health care approaching but you still don't support it even though you know it's coming?

??


YES!

And thank you so much ahhell! Now maybe we can think of a name for it?

S-c--l-y
R---on--b-e
C-p--al-sm

Might work?

The name is most commonly democratic socialism.

No, I don't see the good in it I just see the reality of it.  If I want to build a levy that doesn't mean I see the good of floods, I just see the value in direcing the flood towards a less dangerous path.
  
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SicklersDink
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #19 - Jul 23rd, 2018 at 5:48pm
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ahhell wrote on Jul 23rd, 2018 at 5:40pm:
The name is most commonly democratic socialism.

No, I don't see the good in it I just see the reality of it.  If I want to build a levy that doesn't mean I see the good of floods, I just see the value in direcing the flood towards a less dangerous path.


You said: Quote:
Sure, real socialism is incompatible with capitalism but all western societies are mixed economies with elements of socialism and capitalism and only a few cranks advocate for true socialism anymore.


That has nothing to do with you seeing good, bad, or indifferent. You said it and that's what I've been trying to get you people to understand for months.

So again, THANK YOU!

I'm not stuck on any name but I thought that socially responsible capitalism would work.

Whatever you call it, you've made it crystal clear that it isn't socialism.
  
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