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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING (Read 1261 times)
Jeff
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #110 - Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:32pm
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BobK71 wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:05pm:
Must be one of the first laws of politics... What's in it for *me*?  Guess they're just too young to realize there's a slight difference between a promise and its delivery (and in fact the possibility of the delivery, in the way imagined by the promised.)

To think, just a few decades ago, these same young things of America would have been brushing up their resumes and their dark suits to get ready for the corporate ladder.  There's no more ladder but there is the debt collection letter.
In the '60s and '70s, they were saying essentially the same things they are now

In the late 1800's and early Twentieth Century, they were saying essentially the same things they are now.

There are more opportunities now than there ever were. Increases in knowledge and improvements in technology always create great leaps in opportunity. Unless the government chokes it off as ours has been doing for decades now.
  
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BobK71
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #111 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 9:32am
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Jeff wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 5:32pm:
In the '60s and '70s, they were saying essentially the same things they are now

In the late 1800's and early Twentieth Century, they were saying essentially the same things they are now.

There are more opportunities now than there ever were. Increases in knowledge and improvements in technology always create great leaps in opportunity. Unless the government chokes it off as ours has been doing for decades now.


If we jump into the very big picture as you seem to, we'll admit that there's great material progress over the centuries, and there's even great human 'progress' as the painful boom and bust cycles force most of the Western population to improve themselves to stay competitive, over the long term.

That said, there's still a fundamental disconnect between the advanced luxuries we own (say, as compared to Medieval people) and true happiness.  The high speed of material progress works to dilute human bonds.  The material progress is unnatural -- ultimately the product of artificially created money to benefit the few.  Human relationships can't evolve as fast as the material world, and we're all incentivized to prize material gain over people.
  
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Jeff
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #112 - Sep 13th, 2018 at 10:39am
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BobK71 wrote on Sep 13th, 2018 at 9:32am:
If we jump into the very big picture as you seem to, we'll admit that there's great material progress over the centuries, and there's even great human 'progress' as the painful boom and bust cycles force most of the Western population to improve themselves to stay competitive, over the long term.

That said, there's still a fundamental disconnect between the advanced luxuries we own (say, as compared to Medieval people) and true happiness.  The high speed of material progress works to dilute human bonds.  The material progress is unnatural -- ultimately the product of artificially created money to benefit the few.  Human relationships can't evolve as fast as the material world, and we're all incentivized to prize material gain over people.
Happiness is what you think it is and where you find it.

If anything has acted with definite bad effects on the bonds between humans, it's forced "socialism" and the welfare state in America, which act to destroy families.

Material wealth and prosperity have created leisure time for people, making it possible for them to spend more time with friends and family, if they choose to.

Your claim that material progress is "unnatural" is absurd. Material progress is the result of people putting their minds to problems and solving them, by the natural creative spirit of human beings, and it's enabled by individual liberty and the protection of property rights, both of which derive from natural laws.
  
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lksalksa123
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #113 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 4:44pm
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Democratic Socialism pulls at the heart of compassionate people; it is, as I assume to have coined unless someone beat me there, misplaced compassion.  People see the pain and suffering throughout the country; they see the downtrodden and citizen who have little to know skills that a free market values.  The question then is, should they starve?  The problem, however, is the prescription given by the Marxist critique.  Destroying free market systems or tilting them in a way that barely resembles their original nature leads, as we can see in Venezuela at the moment, to absolute poverty and suffering.  Free market systems have given us the quality of life seen today.  Many people do not realize that the natural state of things is to be broken and full of tyranny; destroying the best worst system that the world has ever seen should be approached with extreme caution.  Compassion is an imperative evolutionary trait that has allowed us to thrive, yet it can come into play in a manner that has catastrophic effects.  Also, many people like free things, but in the end, nothing is free; everything has a price.
  

JWS
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Jeff
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #114 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 4:53pm
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lksalksa123 wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 4:44pm:
Democratic Socialism pulls at the heart of compassionate people; it is, as I assume to have coined unless someone beat me there, misplaced compassion.
I disagree. It's not that the compassion is misplaced, it's that the means chosen to turn the compassion into practical help for those who need it is the wrong tool.

Government fails at such tasks. It always has and always will. Instead of making things better, government planning invariably makes things worse.

Compassionate people need to be made aware of that. When they know it, they will reject Democratic Socialism, fight against it.
  
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AlayneLeung
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #115 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:07pm
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SkyChief said or typed or wrote or copied: Quote:
Socialism discourages innovation and exploration.  Socialist states have never produced any notable explorers or inventors.  And why would they?   There is no motivation for either.


Not true; the Soviet Union provided rewards to persons that created inventions in the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union launched Sputnik before the United States launched any satellites that orbited Earth, I think. 

Two problems with socialism:

1, socialism government usually eventually taxes very much back the money that the government pays persons;

and 2, socialism government only benefits persons that have jobs or are innovative because socialism is basically "pay for you based on your deeds"; if you can't find a job to be employed at or can't start a business, then socialism government usually confines, imprisons, exiles, or kills you.
  
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Jeff
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #116 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:26pm
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AlayneLeung wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:07pm:
SkyChief said or typed or wrote or copied:

Not true; the Soviet Union provided rewards to persons that created inventions in the Soviet Union, and the Soviet Union launched Sputnik before the United States launched any satellites that orbited Earth, I think. 

Right. Directing huge amounts of tax resources to some bureaucrat approved plan to achieve national greatness often produces tangible progress, but there are lost opportunity costs for things like that, and free inquiry for private reasons, whatever they might be, has proven to produce far more useful progress...

Like Oreo cookies!

Which would you rather have, some Oreos and milk, or a missile and a nuclear warhead?

Personally I mean. We are talking about human progress right?

Edit: To make it clear, free countries got Oreo cookies and those living under Soviet rule didn't...

Judge for yourself which is more important to you.
  
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SkyChief
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #117 - Oct 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm
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Stossel: Socialism Fails Every Time

Democratic-socialists like to point to Denmark, Norway, Sweden as model socialist states.

This video explains why Scandinavian countries are not really socialist. 

  Stossel points out that these countries are market-based economies, but with extremely high taxes and welfare.   Just like here in the the US!


  
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Jeff
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #118 - Oct 16th, 2018 at 6:45pm
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SkyChief wrote on Oct 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
Stossel: Socialism Fails Every Time

Democratic-socialists like to point to Denmark, Norway, Sweden as model socialist states.

This video explains why Scandinavian countries are not really socialist. 

  Stossel points out that these countries are market-based economies, but with extremely high taxes and welfare.   Just like here in the the US!


I think they are currently ahead of us in economic freedom. Embarrassed

Edit: Is that really a pic of Stossel?

Edit 2: Not only are they not Socialists, they are very very far from being Democratic Socialists.


  
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SkyChief
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Re: DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM SURGING
Reply #119 - Oct 16th, 2018 at 10:41pm
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Jeff wrote on Oct 16th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Not only are they not Socialists, they are very very far from being Democratic Socialists.

Right. 

But they still believe that government can legally steal wealth from us. (as do you).

You are are both very dangerous to a free society.

We'll be keeping an eye on you.   Wink
  
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